2008 Presidential Election Thread

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:25 pm

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:29 pm

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule) but a mule is sterile. Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

They could use chimps

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:38 pm

gs78 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule) but a mule is sterile. Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

They could use chimps

While reasonably closely related to humans, they aren't at all close enough to inbreed the two species......

HUMANS & CHIMPS:
Domain: Eukarya
Phylum: Chordata (subphylum vertebrata)
Class: Mammalia (subclass theria)
Order: Primates (suborder Arthropoidea)
Family: Hominidae (subfamily Hominidae)
This is all well and good, but the rest isn't close enough....

HUMANS (Homo sapiens sapiens):
Genus: Homo
Species: sapiens
Subspecies: sapiens

CHIMPANZEES (Pan sp.):
Genus: Pan
Species: There are two that survive today

Finally, humans and chimpanzees don't have the same number of chromosomes - chimps have an extra set. With that said, scientists do believe that over the course of evolution two sets of human chromosomes (2A and 2B) fused to form one chromosome (Human chromosome 2) whereas no such fusion occurred in chimps.

Still, IT WON'T WORK! Don't go having sex with chimps and expect to produce anything.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:38 pm

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

But they now have the right to do it without government stopping them.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:42 pm

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

But they now have the right to do it without government stopping them.

As well as Cloning

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:46 pm

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

But they now have the right to do it without government stopping them.

I have the right to tattoo my social security number across my forehead - that doesn't mean I'm going to do it.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:51 pm

But my taxes shouldn't go for unregulated research

Let them play God with private funds

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:56 pm

catbox_9 wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

But they now have the right to do it without government stopping them.

I have the right to tattoo my social security number across my forehead - that doesn't mean I'm going to do it.

They're going to try to do it and tax us. Great idea! Tax the people for something that's not going to work!

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:58 pm

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

But they now have the right to do it without government stopping them.

I have the right to tattoo my social security number across my forehead - that doesn't mean I'm going to do it.

They're going to try to do it and tax us. Great idea! Tax the people for something that's not going to work!

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:59 pm

Typical wasteful Government Spending

We need more leaders like Ron Paul

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:06 pm

gs78 wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And mixing Animal Embryos with Human ones

Who said they were going to do that? It's simple biology - that won't work. You can only combine genetic information of two closely related species (donkey + horse = mule but a mule is sterile). Donkeys and mules are both of the genus Equus. Humans are of the genus Homo and there is no living organism of that genus other than humans. It just won't work.

But they now have the right to do it without government stopping them.

I have the right to tattoo my social security number across my forehead - that doesn't mean I'm going to do it.

They're going to try to do it and tax us. Great idea! Tax the people for something that's not going to work!

Embryonic stem cell research was already legal in Michigan. Regulations were there because these things don't work. Why would they make us vote to remove these regulations if they didn't want to do these things? I can't believe this proposition got passed!

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:07 pm

Because they want us rubes to fund their experiments

Do it with Private Money

Leave my Wallet alone

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:12 pm

The full text of the initiative:

Spoiler:

That text has nothing to do with making species that don't exist and specifically outlaws human cloning. In addition, it doesn't even talk about finances...Michigan already has stem cell research but they couldn't use these types of cells - now they can.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:14 pm

But it doesn't say it won't be funded with tax money

That is the problem

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:14 pm

In addition, Michigan was one of just 5 states to outlaw this type of research. The University of Michigan is one of the best research institutions in the nation - not allowing this type of research would put that title in jeopardy. No stem cell researched would want to research at an institution that limited what he/she was able to do.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:16 pm

But Taxpayer money should not pay for it

And they gonna want tax money

And with the Liberals in Power

They will get it

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:19 pm

But this issue doesn't have anything to do with money. Stem cell research is already allowed. The research they're doing gets money from somewhere. Now they're allowed to do a different kind of research. The new cells are going to be donated (in other words free). Paying for human tissues is a huge no-no so it's not an issue here.

It's like this terrible analogy....
If you get a grant to build yourself a house but only have screws and no nails you use a drill instead of a hammer. If the government decides nails would be easier and decide you can have hammers and nails that would otherwise be thrown out you don't require more money to finish construction. Again that's a terrible analogy but it's the best I could do at the moment ashamed

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:21 pm

catbox_9 wrote:: But this issue doesn't have anything to do with money. Stem cell research is already allowed. The research they're doing gets money from somewhere. Now they're allowed to do a different kind of research. The new cells are going to be donated (in other words free). Paying for human tissues is a huge no-no so it's not an issue here.

It's like this terrible analogy....
If you get a grant to build yourself a house but only have screws and no nails you use a drill instead of a hammer. If the government decides nails would be easier and decide you can have hammers and nails that would otherwise be thrown out you don't require more money to finish construction. Again that's a terrible analogy but it's the best I could do at the moment

Nothing is Free

Money gonna be wasted by taxpayers

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:25 pm

gs78 wrote:: Nothing is Free

Money gonna be wasted by taxpayers

The money is already being "wasted". I realize you are concerned spending your tax money on something you don't support, but based on the proposal written all this does is allows researchers to use stem cells from human embryos...these are the most useful types of stem cells. Obviously this research will cost money (and a lot of money) but I don't see where in the proposal this would cost more money if it's passed than if it's defeated. I could understand having moral reservations about the issue (I of course don't agree with these reservations as medical waste is just that - waste....but that's just me) but I have a hard time understanding the economic argument.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:33 pm

catbox_9 wrote:: but I have a hard time understanding the economic argument.

Michigan Voters Approve Proposition 2 to Allow Destruction of Human Embryos

Lansing, MI (LifeNews.com) -- Michigan residents voted on Tuesday in favor of Proposition 2, a state ballot proposal that would permit the unregulated and unrestricted destruction of human embryos for experimental purposes. Opponents say the measure does nothing to advance ethical and proven research like using adult stem cells.

Proposition 2 carried the state by a 52.4-47.6 percentage point margin with 78 percent of the precincts reporting.

The vote is interesting because it comes at a time when embryonic stem cell research is less and less in vogue. Scientists have been unable to conquer problems associated with it, ranging from the growth of tumors when the cells are injected in animals to rejection from their immune systems.

Instead, scientists have focused on a new kind of cell called iPSCs that are created as a result of a process known as direct reprogramming.

The technique has received the support of the pro-life community because it allows scientists to develop embryonic-like stem cells without the destruction of human life that makes embryonic stem cell research unethical and immoral.

The group MiCAUSE, a joint effort of Right to Life of Michigan and the Michigan Catholic Conference, ran a radio ad towards the end of the campaign saying Michigan taxpayers shouldn’t be forced to pay for the research because it is unproven and because the state is facing financial pressure.

“Proponents of Proposal 2 claim they're not trying to dig up tax dollars to support their human embryo research," the ad says. "But in a recent interview, the chairman of Proposal 2 told a different story admitting that [embryonic] stem cell research should be funded publicly."

"So, at a time when we can least afford it, proponents of Proposal 2 want Michigan taxpayers to pay for the unregulated and unrestricted destruction of human embryos," the ad said.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:36 pm

Thanks. He does say "should" though. Still, someone has to vote on this or state legislators have to pass laws or something before they can change the taxes - the bill didn't specifically call for tax dollars.

Even if it did - it's a lot easier to justify spending money on this than a lot of other things.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:39 pm

bobrob2004 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: But who is gonna pay for it?

Taxpayers?

That's the main reason why I voted no on Prop 2. Embryonic stem cell research was already legal in Michigan. Now they have more freedom to do whatever the hell they want while our taxes go up.

Lots more. I voted no as well.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:42 pm

catbox_9 wrote:: Thanks. He does say "should" though. Still, someone has to vote on this or state legislators have to pass laws or something before they can change the taxes - the bill didn't specifically call for tax dollars.

Even if it did - it's a lot easier to justify spending money on this than a lot of other things.

It still gonna cost money

When it is said and done

Still against it

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:43 pm

Too bad Voters in Michigan couldn't see that

There were a lot of ads against Prop 2

Just goes to show running tons of ads does not always mean success

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:44 pm

My employer was totally for it and even sent a mass e-mail urging the yes vote on Prop 2

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:45 am

laprimamirala wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: But who is gonna pay for it?

Taxpayers?

That's the main reason why I voted no on Prop 2. Embryonic stem cell research was already legal in Michigan. Now they have more freedom to do whatever the hell they want while our taxes go up.

Lots more. I voted no as well.

It sucks

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:48 am

laprimamirala wrote:: My employer was totally for it and even sent a mass e-mail urging the yes vote on Prop 2

'

That kind of shit pisses me off

This is why the Liberals have control of everything

All the Unions brainwash their workers to Vote Democrat

Vote Yes on 2

The Conservatives are wrong

The Anti 2 people are a bunch of Religious Freaks and so on

Hope they happy

We got Socialism

Big Spending

And Frankenstein's Monster being built in a Lab

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:25 am

gs78 wrote:: And Frankenstein's Monster

On a totally unrelated note to Prop 2 (but related to Frankenstein's monster) I just learned today that Frankenstein was the creator of the monster and the monster is NOT named Frankenstein.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:52 am

Right...Baron von Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster.

Subject: Re: 2008 Presidential Election Thread Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:20 pm

catbox_9 wrote:

gs78 wrote:: And Frankenstein's Monster

On a totally unrelated note to Prop 2 (but related to Frankenstein's monster) I just learned today that Frankenstein was the creator of the monster and the monster is NOT named Frankenstein.

You always gotta top me

Don't You Cat!

lol2

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