Catholicism, religion, politics, and more

Night Catbox

Yeah, I've got other things to do anyways. Night!

I split this topic as we were getting way off topic.

Thanks Catbox

gs78 wrote:

Islam is the most intolerant religion on Earth

Maybe not...
Qur'anic verses made it legal for Muslims to marry people from other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Jews and Christians), provided that they are faithful (adherent) to their own religious beliefs. Contemporary scholars have upheld this ruling, but many view inter-faith marriages as unwise (as it leads to many problems such as determination of religion of children, etc), albeit legal.

Orthodox Judaism maintains a strong prohibition on interfaith sexual relations and marriage.

Some Christian denominations forbid interfaith marriage, drawing from 2 Corinthians 6:14, and in some cases Deuteronomy 7:3.

The Catholic church requires permission for mixed marriages, which it terms all unions between Catholics and baptized non-Catholics (Eastern Orthodox and many Protestants), but such marriages are valid, though illicit, without it: the pastor of the Catholic party has authority to grant such permission.

They don't sound the most intolerant there. They're the only ones that come off as tolerant.

catbox_9 wrote:

[I'm not even close to Catholic so maybe I'm missing something

What religion are you?

TG wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

[I'm not even close to Catholic so maybe I'm missing something

What religion are you?

Not Catholic

An agnostic theist maybe?

I don't go to church or anything. One of my last experiences I got in an argument with the youth pastor who insisted that even the holiest of Rabbis were going to hell....just like serial killers who molest children. Basically his lesson was if you aren't Christian you might as well kill people and molest children - it's the same thing.

gs78 is Catholic


But more in name than in actual practice

I'm Catholic!



Haha!

I got in an argument at the Catholic school I went to last year, with one of my catholic teachers.... It didn't go well. The whole thing about "If you use birth control you are commiting murder and going to hell" and if you don't get married to a catholic in a catholic church you are going hell... and stuff like that made me mad because we had to go to confession, and all of my friends and I (or used to be friends anyway....) got mad about it, but they weren't going to argue with people (but I of course did...). So I argued.... I lost even though I know I'm right.

I don't even know what religion I am. I was confirmed and baptized Catholic, and went to a Catholic school forever (until now).... But I don't really think I am.

TG wrote:

I got in an argument at the Catholic school I went to last year, with one of my catholic teachers.... It didn't go well. The whole thing about "If you use birth control you are commiting murder and going to hell" and if you don't get married to a catholic in a catholic church you are going hell... and stuff like that made me mad because we had to go to confession, and all of my friends and I (or used to be friends anyway....) got mad about it, but they weren't going to argue with people (but I of course did...). So I argued.... I lost even though I know I'm right.

I don't even know what religion I am. I was confirmed and baptized Catholic, and went to a Catholic school forever (until now).... But I don't really think I am.

Pick what's best for you. I don't want to piss anyone off so I'll try and be delicate with my comments. Regardless, the notion of birth control being evil is preposterous. There's just a lot of rules that I can't stand. You've got the hatred of non-Christians like I mentioned (hell, some Protestants/Catholics/Orthodox/etc. say you're going to hell if you're the wrong kind of Christian ).

Recently there was a story about some kid in New Jersey (Haley Waldman) whose first Communion was revoked by the Catholic Diocese. The Bishop, John Smith, cited a Vatican precedent set by a Cardinal, Joseph Ratzinger, and said that her Communion was invalid because the wafers she was given were rice. Of course the girl has a rare genetic disorder making her allergic to wheat so if she were to eat wheat wafers she would die.

As I stated, I'm not all that religious, but if my memory serves me right, Communion is an important sacrament and people who do not take part in it aren't really doing a good job at their religion. This wasn't just some random guy telling her no - a bishop and cardinal agreed. I can't recall the chain of command, but I am almost certain that bishops and cardinals (cardinals especially) are pretty high up there. Isn't the pope technically just the bishop of Rome?


--------------------

On an unrelated note, were your church services in Latin?

catbox_9 wrote:

On an unrelated note, were your church services in Latin?

No they weren't. But they got a new priest and he wants to change the rules so that they would be. If I had to sit through somebody talking in Latin for an hour once a week I think I would switch schools

Spoiler:

---
To what you were saying about communion....
My dad is not catholic, however my mom is. The church that I used to have to go to with school would not allow her to recieve communion. It is a big deal to recieve communion, and they tell you it is a sin if you don't recieve communion every sunday. However they told my mom she wasn't allowed to recieve becuase she was married to my dad.

I am a Christian, not a ..... whatever church you go to! That is the Biblical terminology for someone who has accepted Christ as their Lord (one who guides their actions) and Savior (the one who the Father in Heaven has given the power to forgive one's sins). I have gone to at least a dozen different denominational churches, but we are saved by God the Father, through Jesus, His Son, not by any one man or church. When someone says they are a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc., it just indicates the church group they are affiliated with. But the main thing we all have to be in agreement with, it who's we are. We are either God's children, or satans.

TG, it is not a sin to question the beliefs of man. The main thing is to compare what you are taught, by what the Bible says. If what is being taught does not agree with all the Bible, then go with the Bible. If it seems the question you have is contradicted in different passages of the Bible, then you need to study the Biblical answers deeper, because the Bible does not contradict itself. The different writers of the Bible were each addressing something that was in question with that particular group of people.

When you say

TG wrote:

I don't even know what religion I am. I was
confirmed and baptized Catholic, and went to a Catholic school forever
(until now).... But I don't really think I am.

That is ok. Just make sure you have accepted Christ, asked him to forgive your sins, and repent (turn away from what God tells you is wrong) and then you can know you are a "Christian." There are Christians, and also non-Christians in all churches. Just remember, Christianity is not a religion, but a way of life and relationship.

In religion, we do things to be saved, in Christianity, we do what God says because we are saved. Ephesians 2:8-10. Most groups just look at verses 8 and 9, but the key is verse 10.

And Cat, I have had the same arguements, plus other questions, with my professors in seminary, concerning the Jewish people. As I understand it, before Christ came, the Jews were under the law. They ARE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE. They had to follow the Law to be saved (They asked for the Law themselves!) God showed them that to get to heaven by the Law, one had to be perfect... which was impossible! So God sent His Son to give us an easier way of entering heaven.

Being God's chosen, they will be in heaven.

After Christ came, we are under the Grace of God, and gentiles (non-Jews) are grafted in. Both Jew and Gentile get to heaven the same way, through Christ. If you look in the Bible, all the first members of the church were Jews who accepted Christ. God is a gentleman and will not force anyone to accept His Son. But it is a requirement. And God is going to save his chosen. That is what the end times are for, to get Israel to come back to Him.

A good site for understanding the Jewish question of salvation is from Jews themself...

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/theology/mediator

TG wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

On an unrelated note, were your church services in Latin?

No they weren't. But they got a new priest and he wants to change the rules so that they would be. If I had to sit through somebody talking in Latin for an hour once a week I think I would switch schools

Spoiler:

But isn't one of the key things of Catholicism, that their services are in Latin? They always were until recently. I appreciate that they're trying to be "modern" but religion isn't technology - you don't modernize it. If we're going to do that, why not add some more books to the Bible - surely there have been some religious scholars who could have said something important the last 1000+ years? Of course that sounds quite silly and borderline blasphemous.

My dad was raised Catholic whereas my mother wasn't. My mother's grandmother never liked my dad for that reason despite the fact by the time my parents were married he hadn't been to church in probably 20 years. I won't lie and say I'm the most tolerant person there is, but I won't associate with people that preach intolerance. If you have to be Christian (or even the right Christian to go to heaven why bother?) Christians are about the only religion with a concept of hell anyways.

TG wrote:

It is a big deal to recieve communion, and they tell you it is a sin if you don't recieve communion every sunday.

That's what I thought. So basically, it's a sin to be handicapped or have a birth defect?

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

And Cat, I have had the same arguements, plus other questions, with my professors in seminary, concerning the Jewish people. As I understand it, before Christ came, the Jews were under the law. They ARE GOD'S CHOSEN PEOPLE. They had to follow the Law to be saved (They asked for the Law themselves!) God showed them that to get to heaven by the Law, one had to be perfect... which was impossible! So God sent His Son to give us an easier way of entering heaven.

Being God's chosen, they will be in heaven.

That was sort of my understanding from a world religions class. It's for that reason that the the Jewish, Christians, and Muslims (in theory) get along okay. They all think they're the same thing. Muslims think that Moses was Muslim and the Jewish people just shot off of there, just like the Christians did. Christians think that while someone like Moses was in fact Jewish, that's only because it wasn't possible to be Christian prior to Christ. I'd guess that we're to assume that if for some reason Moses lived way longer than he did, he'd become Christian. That may not be exactly right, but it was just an intro class so we didn't really get that into it and I took it back in high school.

But my question is, what about Buddhists or Hindus (or other Eastern religions)? Nobody would argue that Buddhism or Hinduism are forms of Christianity. Hinduism is probably the oldest religion out there, but it does not now, nor has it ever, been affiliated with Judaism or any other western religion.

While this is almost certainly blasphemy, I've always had a deeper appreciation for those Eastern religions because they are without a doubt the most tolerant. They don't try and convert people. In fact, they'll even embrace other religions. If you want to be a Buddhist/Hindu/etc. but also adopt Christian aspects and celebrate their holidays, that's fine. You can practice any religion so long as it preaches compassion. I've never heard a Christian, Jew, or Muslim say it was okay to believe in reincarnation.

catbox_9 wrote:

But isn't one of the key things of Catholicism, that their services are in Latin? They always were until recently. I appreciate that they're trying to be "modern" but religion isn't technology - you don't modernize it. If we're going to do that, why not add some more books to the Bible - surely there have been some religious scholars who could have said something important the last 1000+ years? Of course that sounds quite silly and borderline blasphemous.

Yes it is part of traditions. However, what is the point of attending a mass if you have no idea what you are saying. If you have to agree to something, which you often times do, you don't know what you are agreeing to. At the church I used to go to before I decided I didn't agree with everything, they had a few songs in latin but that was all.

catbox_9 wrote:

If you have to be Christian (or even the right Christian to go to heaven why bother? Christians are about the only religion with a concept of hell anyways.

I don't understand what you are saying.

TG wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

But isn't one of the key things of Catholicism, that their services are in Latin? They always were until recently. I appreciate that they're trying to be "modern" but religion isn't technology - you don't modernize it. If we're going to do that, why not add some more books to the Bible - surely there have been some religious scholars who could have said something important the last 1000+ years? Of course that sounds quite silly and borderline blasphemous.

Yes it is part of traditions. However, what is the point of attending a mass if you have no idea what you are saying. If you have to agree to something, which you often times do, you don't know what you are agreeing to. At the church I used to go to before I decided I didn't agree with everything, they had a few songs in latin but that was all.

People can learn Latin. At the very least why not have the service in both Latin and English? Or if that still won't work, have multiple services - one of which is in Latin. Now you appeal to everyone.

TG wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

If you have to be Christian (or even the right Christian to go to heaven why bother?) Christians are about the only religion with a concept of hell anyways.

I don't understand what you are saying.

I should qualify that a bit. While many religions have some sort of hell, Christians are the only ones who emphasize it. The Jewish portray hell (sheol) as a state of nothingness or neutrality. Eastern religions which preach reincarnation obviously don't have hell - you're just reincarnated. Eventually everyone gets to their version of heaven, but it takes many lifetimes to do so. Muslims have Jahannam which is like hell, but they also believe people there will eventually be forgiven.

catbox_9 wrote:

TG wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

But isn't one of the key things of Catholicism, that their services are in Latin? They always were until recently. I appreciate that they're trying to be "modern" but religion isn't technology - you don't modernize it. If we're going to do that, why not add some more books to the Bible - surely there have been some religious scholars who could have said something important the last 1000+ years? Of course that sounds quite silly and borderline blasphemous.

Yes it is part of traditions. However, what is the point of attending a mass if you have no idea what you are saying. If you have to agree to something, which you often times do, you don't know what you are agreeing to. At the church I used to go to before I decided I didn't agree with everything, they had a few songs in latin but that was all.

People can learn Latin. At the very least why not have the service in both Latin and English? Or if that still won't work, have multiple services - one of which is in Latin. Now you appeal to everyone.

That makes sense.... I guess.

catbox_9 wrote:

TG wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

If you have to be Christian (or even the right Christian to go to heaven why bother?) Christians are about the only religion with a concept of hell anyways.

I don't understand what you are saying.

I should qualify that a bit. While many religions have some sort of hell, Christians are the only ones who emphasize it. The Jewish portray hell (sheol) as a state of nothingness or neutrality. Eastern religions which preach reincarnation obviously don't have hell - you're just reincarnated. Eventually everyone gets to their version of heaven, but it takes many lifetimes to do so. Muslims have Jahannam which is like hell, but they also believe people there will eventually be forgiven.

I'm getting confused....
And with all the things you mentioned, what is your belief on the matter?

TG wrote:

And with all the things you mentioned, what is your belief on the matter?

As I'm agnostic I don't know, nor do I think knowing is possible. Whatever the answer, I very strongly believe that any sort of afterlife is open to all people regardless of disability or religion. Of course that's not suggesting if there is a heaven and hell everyone is able to go to heaven, but rather people that are for the most part "good people" will be rewarded. I'm not at all religious, but my religious belief is basically be a good person and all will be well. I figure one rule keeps it pretty simple.

Thats very.... interesting.

Thanks?

Sorry.
I'm just thinking.

catbox_9 wrote:

As I'm agnostic I don't know, nor do I think knowing is possible. Whatever the answer, I very strongly believe that any sort of afterlife is open to all people regardless of disability or religion. Of course that's not suggesting if there is a heaven and hell everyone is able to go to heaven, but rather people that are for the most part "good people" will be rewarded. I'm not at all religious, but my religious belief is basically be a good person and all will be well. I figure one rule keeps it pretty simple.

That's pretty much what the Wiccans/Pagans believe too.

SoulRat wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

As I'm agnostic I don't know, nor do I think knowing is possible. Whatever the answer, I very strongly believe that any sort of afterlife is open to all people regardless of disability or religion. Of course that's not suggesting if there is a heaven and hell everyone is able to go to heaven, but rather people that are for the most part "good people" will be rewarded. I'm not at all religious, but my religious belief is basically be a good person and all will be well. I figure one rule keeps it pretty simple.

That's pretty much what the Wiccans/Pagans believe too.

I don't do pagan rituals though

Plus they're more religious and what not than I am. I just keep it real simple. Don't break laws, don't treat people poorly, etc.

I need to go do research... I'm so confused.

A Pagan ritual isn't any different than what Christians do in church. They just worship different gods is all.

SoulRat wrote:

A Pagan ritual isn't any different than what Christians do in church. They just worship different gods is all.

But I don't do anything - church, rituals, etc.

catbox_9 wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

A Pagan ritual isn't any different than what Christians do in church. They just worship different gods is all.

But I don't do anything - church, rituals, etc.

I know I'm just sayin' :haha: Just be a good person and good things will come to you.

SoulRat wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

A Pagan ritual isn't any different than what Christians do in church. They just worship different gods is all.

But I don't do anything - church, rituals, etc.

I know I'm just sayin' :haha: Just be a good person and good things will come to you.

Yeah, that's what I said a while back. Basically, if your neighbor accidentally runs over your cat - don't shoot them. While it's perfectly reasonable to be mad at your neighbor, it is not reasonable to run their cat over (unless it's truly an accident - and not just something that looks like one).

catbox_9 wrote:

Yeah, that's what I said a while back. Basically, if your neighbor accidentally runs over your cat - don't shoot them. While it's perfectly reasonable to be mad at your neighbor, it is not reasonable to run their cat over (unless it's truly an accident - and not just something that looks like one).

:haha: Yeah, don't kill the neighbor's cat, even if he kills yours. One of my neighbors killed one of my cats once. I didn't even call her a bitch, even though I wanted to. Even though I say it in my head everytime I see her