2008 Presidential Election Thread

bobrob2004 wrote:

I can't understand how Obama could've gotten this far in the Presidential election if he's ineligible.

It is called lack of vetting, in his case. Hillary Clinton did start the research, but for the good of the party, she has kept quiet now.

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:

I can't understand how Obama could've gotten this far in the Presidential election if he's ineligible.

It is called lack of vetting, in his case. Hillary Clinton did start the research, but for the good of the party, she has kept quiet now.

But still, you would have thought that every candidate would have to show proof of citizenship, age, etc. before being accepted on the primary ballot. It doesn't make any sense.

catbox_9 wrote:

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

Quote :

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination” (Leviticus 18:22; see also Leviticus 20:13).

If homosexuality is the clear reason for God’s judgment on Sodom and Gomorroah, why doesn’t the writer of Genesis state it clearly as such?

Quote :

Now this is the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not
help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable
things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Ezekiel 49-50.

This passage says nothing about sexual acts of any kind as the reason for the destruction, but does specifically outline arrogance and a lack of concern for the needs of others as the reason. The passage clearly teaches that inhospitable acts were the key reasons for God’s judgment.

Another passage....

Quote :

There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are detestable
to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into
evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up
dissension among brothers. Proverbs 6:16-19

This passage makes no mention of homosexuality.

In Matthew, Jesus talks about the people of Sodom indirectly and further states that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of inhospitable acts...

Quote :

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom - both young and old - surrounded the house. Genesis 19:4

The key word in this passage is of course "men". Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of anything would also realize that Genesis was not written in English, but rather Hebrew. In Hebrew, the word used for "men" in this passage is "enoshe" which is not gender specific. If the author intended to refer to men, why did the author not instead use "esh" which is gender specific.

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 are the traditional condemnation passages against homosexual acts and appear in our modern translations to be clear cut prohibitions. Some have said these passages would justify capital punishment of homosexuals. Would these people also bring the same judgment against adulterers (Leviticus 20:10)? Following suite, they would also have to prescribe the death penalty for their stubborn and rebellious sons (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). One thing is clear from Paul’s teaching: anyone who puts themselves under any one point of the Law obligates themselves to keep the whole Law (Galatians 5:3) or they are worthy of death.

--------------------------------

Back to your original passage, Leviticus 18:22, a common translation reads "You must not sleep the sleep of a woman with a man; it is ritually impure" this prohibition cannot be a blanket condemnation of homosexuality, because the writer uses the Hebrew word toevah referring to the act as being “detestable” or an “abomination”. The Hebrews used special words to condemn specific wicked or abominable misdeeds. If this passage had been referring to sexual misconduct, the writer would have used the word zimmah instead.


-------------------------------

Of course we're all free to believe whatever we want. As for homosexual rights in this country, there is no reason why everyone should not have the same rights, gay or straight....

catbox_9 wrote:

Clearly religion should have no impact on law:

Quote :

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
-Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution

.

You miss the second part.. "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" which is normal. It is not freedom FROM religion, but freedom OF religion!

And of course everyone should be treated equally:

Quote :

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
-United States Declaration of Independence

If you want to go into detail about the sin of homosexuality, I have no problem doing it, but that is not the purpose of the your argument. It was about the church using prayer to a powerful God to help Gays who do not want to be Gay.

I know you just finished up your undergraduate studies in psychology.

I also have a Masters in Counseling, and have taken all the classes you have, in psychology, and understand the secular beliefs in the psychology and the physical situations that modern science believes concerning the condition.

I also have the Christian training in "Christian psychology" that has been proven to help Gay people. Because of my combined secular and Christian training, I look at the person as a whole body as physical body, soul, mind and spirit. I believe in the physical reasons for the condition, the psychological beliefs and the Spiritual influences that can be involved! If you just look at one of these components, and ignore the others, then it does seem like it is hopeless.... a gay is always meant to be Gay. But in real life practice, a good counselor looks at all three: body, mind and spirit.

Most of the secular psych hospitals in this area have learned this and they hire many Christians as counselors now. They have done studies here and found if you ignore the spiritual aspect, many patients do not get better!

I have personally worked with gay men and women who, when they yield to the healing power of belief in God, and prayer to Jesus, they have changed and are no longer Gay. But the people were first checked by doctors, to make sure there was no physical (hormonal) imbalances. Second, counseling was used in reviewing their upbringing and the social influences that can lead to the condition. Finally when they were at a complete state of not getting help in the secular way, I worked with them spiritually, and saw the wonderful power of God's healing grace!

In followups, years later, the people are still straight, and very happy now.

Normal secular methods did not help these people, but with the fact that you are just getting out of a secular University, and being agnostic, I can see why you fall back just on secular reports and studies.

Berg Outraged: Obama & DNC file motion to delay discovery until after defendants motion to dismiss is decided

Monday, 06 October 2008 19:51

Berg is “Outraged” that Obama & DNC Hide Again Behind Legal Issues as their attorney files a Motion for Protective Order to “not” Answer Admissions & Production of Documents while Betraying Public in not Producing Documents proving Obama is “qualified” to be a candidate for President.

It is believed Obama is an “illegal alien”


(Contact info and pdf of press release below)

Country is Headed to a Constitutional Crisis

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/06/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama’s lack of “qualifications” to serve as President of the United States, announced today that Obama and Democratic National Committee [DNC] filed a Joint Motion for Protective Order to Stay Discovery Pending a Decision on the Motion to Dismiss (which was) filed on 09/24/08.

While legal, Berg stated he is “outraged as this is another attempt to hide the truth from the public; it is obvious that documents do not exist to prove that Obama is qualified to be President.” The case is Berg v. Obama, No. 08-cv-04083.

Their joint motion indicates a concerted effort to avoid the truth by attempting to delay the judicial process, although legal, by not resolving the issue presented: that is, whether Barack Obama meets the qualifications to be President.

It is obvious that Obama was born in Kenya and does not meet the “qualifications” to be President of the United States pursuant to our United States Constitution. Obama cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from Hawaii because it does not exist.

Furthermore, and actually more important is Obama’s Certificate of Citizenship that he received when he returned from Indonesia, as if it exists it would indicate that Obama was “naturalized” and also not able to be President.

The DNC has promised “we the people” an Open and Honest Government and has promised to uphold our United States Constitution. The DNC has failed their promise. DNC Chairperson Howard Dean should resign as he has not and is not fulfilling his responsibility of seeing that a “qualified” candidate is on the ballot as the Democratic candidate for President of the United States.

Berg stated that a response in opposition will be filed in the next day or so to the Defendants Motion for a Protective Order.

Our website obamacrimes.com now has 21.7 million hits. We are urging all to spread the word of our website – and forward to your local newspapers and radio and TV stations. Berg again stressed his position regarding the urgency of this case as, “we” the people, are heading to a “Constitutional Crisis” if this case is not resolved forthwith.

Philip J. Berg, Esquire
555 Andorra Glen Court, Suite 12
Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-2531
Cell (610) 662-3005
(610) 825-3134
(800) 993-PHIL [7445]
Fax (610) 834-7659
philjberg@obamacrimes.com

Attachments: ----------File ---------------------------------------------Description ------------------------- File size

Obama, Defense request for Protective Order re Discovery.pdf		1261 Kb
ObamaCrimes.com Press Release 10 06 08 - Reaction to Obama Filing Motion for Pro	ObamaCrimes.com Press Release 10 06 08 - Reaction to Obama Filing Motion for Protective Order	75 Kb

This is wrong. This should've all been taken care of 18 months ago when Obama first announced his nomination. He shouldn't have allowed to announce his nomination until this was resolved! What a messed up country we live in!

What if the world had a vote? Click

Current results:
Obama: 21,431
McCain: 4,263

Electoral votes:
Obama: 8,498
McCain: 16

bobrob2004 wrote:

This is wrong. This should've all been taken care of 18 months ago when Obama first announced his nomination. He shouldn't have allowed to announce his nomination until this was resolved! What a messed up country we live in!

I sure agree with you there bobrob!

Tennessee man indicted for hacking Palin e-mail

Thu Oct 9, 2008 10:02am EDT

By Andy Sullivan

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A Tennessee man has been indicted for hacking into Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's personal e-mail account, the Justice Department said on Wednesday.

David Kernell, 20, of Knoxville, turned himself in and will appear before a U.S. judge on Wednesday, the Justice Department said. He faces up to 5 years in prison if convicted.

According to the indictment, Kernell accessed Palin's account, gov.palin@yahoo.com, on September 16 after correctly answering a series of personal questions.

Yahoo allows users to change their passwords if they confirm personal information such as their birth date and ZIP code and correctly answer a personal question such as the name of their first pet.

Kernell then posted some of the account's contents, along with the password, to the online message board 4chan.org, the indictment says.

Kernell, known online as "rubico," also posted family members' cellphone numbers and e-mail addresses online, the indictment says.

Kernell is the son of a Democratic state legislator, according to local media reports. The legislator, Mike Kernell, did not immediately return a request for comment.

Palin occasionally used the account to conduct state business, according to media reports. Critics have charged that she uses the account to get around public-records laws.

Palin is the running mate of Republican presidential candidate John McCain in the November 4 election.

Palin spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt called the hack "deeply troubling."

"We are certain that the proper authorities will pursue justice and send a clear signal to reassure all Americans that their personal e-mail accounts cannot be hacked into with impunity," Schmitt said in a statement.

(Editing by Philip Barbara)

Missouri officials suspect fake voter registration

By BILL DRAPER, Associated Press Writer Wed Oct 8, 9:45 PM ET

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Officials in Missouri, a hard-fought jewel in the presidential race, are sifting through possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud in other states.

Charlene Davis, co-director of the election board in Jackson County, where Kansas City is, said the fraudulent registration forms came from the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN. She said they were bogging down work Wednesday, the final day Missourians could register to vote.

"I don't even know the entire scope of it because registrations are coming in so heavy," Davis said. "We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all."

The nonpartisan group works to recruit low-income voters, who tend to lean Democratic. Most polls show Republican presidential candidate John McCain with an edge in bellwether Missouri, but Democrat Barack Obama continues to put up a strong fight.

Jess Ordower, Midwest director of ACORN, said his group hasn't done any registrations in Kansas City since late August. He said he was told three weeks ago by election officials that there were only about 135 questionable cards — 85 of them duplicates.

"They keep telling different people different things," he said. "They gave us a list of 130, then told someone else it was 1,000."

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton said the agency has been in contact with elections officials about potential voter fraud and plans to investigate.

"It's a matter we take very seriously," Patton said. "It is against the law to register someone to vote who does not fall within the parameters to vote, or to put someone on there falsely."

On Tuesday, authorities in Nevada seized records from ACORN after finding fraudulent registration forms that included the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.

In April, eight ACORN workers in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards for the 2006 election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway said they submitted cards with false addresses and names, and forged signatures.

Ordower said Wednesday that ACORN registered about 53,500 people in Missouri this year. He believes his group is being targeted because some politicians don't want that many low-income people having a voice.

"It's par for the course," he said. "When you're doing more registrations than anyone else in the country, some don't want low-income people being empowered to vote. There are pretty targeted attacks on us, but we're proud to be out there doing the patriotic thing getting people registered to vote."

Republicans are among ACORN's loudest critics. At a campaign stop in Bethlehem, Pa., supporters of John McCain interrupted his remarks Wednesday by shouting, "No more ACORN."

Debbie Mesloh, spokeswoman for the Obama campaign in Missouri, said in an e-mailed statement that the campaign supported any investigation of possible fraud.

According to its national Web site, the group has registered 1.3 million people nationwide for the Nov. 4 election. It also has encountered complaints of fraud stemming from registration efforts in Wisconsin, New Mexico, Nevada and battleground states like Michigan, Ohio and North Carolina, where new voter registrations have favored Democrats nearly 4 to 1 since the beginning of this year.

Missouri offers 11 electoral votes; the presidential candidates need at least 270 to win the election.

By JEANE MacINTOSH, Post Correspondent

Last updated: 8:01 am
October 9, 2008
Posted: 4:31 am
October 9, 2008

CLEVELAND - Two Ohio voters, including Domino's pizza worker Christopher Barkley , claimed yesterday that they were hounded by the community-activist group ACORN to register to vote several times, even though they made it clear they'd already signed up.

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Barkley estimated he'd registered to vote "10 to 15" times after canvassers for ACORN, whose political wing has endorsed Barack Obama, relentlessly pursued him and others.

Claims such as his have sparked election officials to probe ACORN.

"I kept getting approached by folks who asked me to register," Barkley said. "They'd ask me if I was registered. I'd say yes, and they'd ask me to do it [register] again.

"Some of them were getting paid to collect names. That was their sob story, and I bought it," he said.

Barkley is one of at least three people who have been subpoenaed by the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections as part of a wider inquiry into possible voter fraud by ACORN. The group seeks to register low-income voters, who skew overwhelmingly Democratic.

"You can tell them you're registered as many times as you want - they do not care," said Lateala Goins, 21, who was subpoenaed.

"They will follow you to the buses, they will follow you home, it does not matter," she told The Post.

She added that she never put down an address on any of the registration forms, just her name.

A third subpoenaed voter, Freddie Johnson, 19, filled out registration cards 72 times over 18 months, officials said.

"It feeds the public perception that there could be [fraud], and that makes the pillars fall down," said local Board of Elections President Jeff Hastings.

Registering under a fake name is illegal. But officials usually catch multiple registrations and toss them.

The major risk of fraud growing out of mass canvassing involves the possibility of ineligible voters filing absentee ballots, and thus avoiding checks at polling places, said Republican National Committee chief counsel Sean Cairncross.

The subpoenas come as Republicans have ramped up criticism of ACORN. Officials in Nevada raided ACORN's Las Vegas office Tuesday, accusing the group of signing people up multiple times - in some cases under phony names, like those of Dallas Cowboys.

ACORN's Cleveland spokesman, Kris Harsh, said his group collected 100,000 voter-registration cards; only about 50 were questionable, he claimed.

As for workers, "We watch them like a hawk," he said.

jeane.macintosh@nypost.com

There is voter fraud suspected in at least 10 states now!

laprimamirala wrote:

There is voter fraud suspected in at least 10 states now!

Yep...and you can bet that ACORN has their fingerprints in ALL of it. This has been a heated topic here. There's even been a lawsuit filed by the RNC to get some heads rolling. It's one thing to send the message "Get out and Vote", but it's quite different when a special interest group intentionally gets voters to register more than once, or in more than one precinct, to aid in their cause.

OMG! Here's a link to a video everyone must see! This just goes to show just how screwed we are! It's a short interview of everyday people and their responces to a fw simple questions heading into the election. The answers these people come up with are just amazing! Everyone is from the Cleveland area....and it just goes to show just how stupid some people are, and the logic behind their answers! If the rest of the voters in this country are as ignorant as these people...we're screwed!

http://www.wtam.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=Frantz_VideoRantOTD.php&mid=http://a1802.v302636.c30263.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1802/30263/v0001/cchannel.download.akamai.com/30263/1263/richmedia/Frantz_Election_Rantz_9.26.08.wmv?CCOMRRMID=19788199&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=CLEVELAND-OH&NG_FORMAT=newstalk&NG_ID=wtam1100am&OR_NEWSFORMAT=News/Talk&OWNER=1263&SERVER_NAME=www.wtam.com&SITE_ID=1263&STATION_ID=WTAM-AM&TRACK=rant_926

bobrob2004 wrote:

I can't understand how Obama could've gotten this far in the Presidential election if he's ineligible.

Liberal Conspriracy


The Libs will do anything to get the White House.

They are 100 times worse than Nixon and his Watergate Cronies

I say fuck this election


Let Bush be President another four years

But that's just it...we can't.

laprimamirala wrote:

But that's just it...we can't.

My ideas never work!

gs78 wrote:

I say fuck this election


Let Bush be President another four years

My worst nightmare!

What we need is for Barney Frank, Pelosi, Dodd and all those other crooks to be kicked out and in jail. They knew about the economic nightmare 2 years ago, and would do nothing about it! McCain warned them, the Fed chairman warned them, the President warned them, and they said everything was ok. They had friends in Ginny Mae and Freddy Mac who was making tons of money. The economy is like it is because of lack of government oversite! Mr Dodd is one of the rats behind the fall of the housing market - that led to all the rest of the country.... and now world falling apart financially!!!!! And the stupid Republicans did nothing to try and stop them! Kick all the bums out!

ACORN is a democrartic based "get out the vote" group that Obama has ties to. (His group, in which he and Ayers were part of, trained many of the ACORN people! They have been running amock for years and have been the part of voter fraud all along.

Please see this site: http://thatsmeontheleft.blogspot.com/2008/10/holy-crap.html

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

The difference between Islam and Judaism and Christianity is that in Islam they still do practice the death practices for people who turn from Islam, whereas Jews and Christians do not.
...

The whole point is that, in many of today's Muslim groups, an apostate person IS STILL PUT TO DEATH. I just pray this is not Obama's situation.

Only extremist Muslims. The reason it's so prevalent is many Middle Eastern countries are run by very extreme people and their countries are based on the Qur'an. While I have no problem with practicing religion, I have a very large problem with having the Constitution being holy scripture. With the wrong people in charge you can justify a lot of things with scripture. Surely, the Bible's main point is not justification of the murder of ex-Christians (or more precisely Jews since it's in the Old Testament), but if the wrong person was in charge, the people had little say in anything, and the Bible was the Constitution, you could argue it is what the Bible is all about. That's what happens in the Middle East.

Religious passages suggesting the killing of ex-Muslims is not justifiable...

Spoiler:

Of course I'm not really an expert on Islam so I'll offer Wael Hallaq's opinion on the matter (he is one of the world's leading Sunni scholars with emphasis on Islamic legal thought):
(sorry, can't find the exact quote as I don't want to buy his book): Paraphrased he says that nothing of the apostasy law are derived from the Qur'an.

While I am not an expert on Islam, I have read the first quarter of the Qur'an (although it has been a very long time) and it is not all about violence. There's plenty of talk of peace.....

049.008 A Grace and Favour from God; and God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

049.009 If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other, then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; But if it complies, then make peace between them with justice, and be fair: For Allah loves those who are fair (and just.)

049.010 The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear God, that ye may receive Mercy.

(For your info, "Believers" as stated in the Quran, besides Musims, are Jews, Christians & other that believe in the existence of God)

[29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

and

"Surely those who have faith (in Islam) and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day - their reward is with their Lord and they will neither fear nor grieve" (Quran 2:62 and 5:69).

----------------------------------------------------

Whether or not they believe in death, no western religion is particularly fond of apostasy and they all suggest that their faith is the one true faith. Eastern religions (namely Buddhism and Hinduism) do not even have a concept of apostasy so they are obviously much more tolerant as one cannot have a problem with people who do something that you have no concept of.

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Clearly religion should have no impact on law:

Quote :

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
-Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution

.

You miss the second part.. "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" which is normal. It is not freedom FROM religion, but freedom OF religion!

I didn't miss that part. I included it. People are free to have whatever religion they want and are free to practice said religion. No religion is better or worse than another one so one religion can't make policy that affects people of all religions.

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

If you want to go into detail about the sin of homosexuality, I have no problem doing it, but that is not the purpose of the your argument. It was about the church using prayer to a powerful God to help Gays who do not want to be Gay.

Admittedly, I was a little hard on Palin in her church's policy. As it is not a forced conversion, I can't really complain too much. My point that I have made a few times in this thread is that I have no problem whatsoever with people of any sex marrying someone of either sex. The main opposition with same-sex marriage is either....

religious (and I attempted to argue that the Constitution doesn't allow such an argument....I also attempted to argue that there is at least some evidence in the Bible that homosexuality is not as great a sin as it appears at first glance)

or economic....this argument is even weaker as I've never once heard of anyone trying to stop a wedding between heterosexual couples where one of them had insurance and the other did not - this is what makes gay marriage "wrong" from an economic standpoint...people get too many health benefits. If a heterosexual couple is doing it, one should be equally outraged, but they aren't therefore this argument fails.

I suppose xenophobia could be a third argument against same-sex marriage, but there's no sense arguing with someone who says something like "gay people are evil and should die. They aren't normal and they aren't human. They're so up in the head that they get AIDS on purpose so they won't have to worry about it in the future".

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

I know you just finished up your undergraduate studies in psychology.

I also have a Masters in Counseling (rest of quote truncated)....

This is all true. My problem with people being so eager to convert everyone to being straight because it's "better". Scientific studies suggest that "most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation." As people did not just wake up one morning and decide to be attracted to members of the same sex, why should they feel like they need to change? While many do indeed want to change, the reasons for this is often because of the persecution that they will receive if they don't change. If someone is born with one arm, or born male, or born Asian, etc. you don't try and change that.


----------------------------------

Going back to marriage - marriage did not originate in Christianity. They (like all religions) have their own form of marriage, but they should not dictate something that is not theirs to begin with. US-based marriage is not now, nor has it ever been, set in stone. For many years, the United States had anti-miscegenation laws that forbade interracial marriage. These were even upheld by the Supreme Court (Pace v Alabama, 1883 subsequently overturned by Loving v Virginia, 1967). Almost nobody today would argue in favor of these laws, but at one time it was the norm.

I'm not trying to be anti-Christianity here and if they want to forever ban gay marriage and forever say its a sin and they need to change their behavior, etc. that's fine, but the United States is supposed to be secular even though the overwhelming majority of its citizens are indeed some sort of Christian.

Shouldn't Mccain be unable to run too? He wasn't born in the US.

If we are going into the topic of what the bible says is wrong and right I have a few things. The bible says it's a lesser crime to rape a woman than to be a gay. As long as the rapist is a gay man, better to rape a woman than have consenting sex with a man. Also okays marring your half sister and having kids with her. Also okay to have sex with your daughters as long as you are really drunk. Maybe we should add some new laws to allow for those. Question. Is the bible really trust worthy? It was written by man, and re written in different languages by man. Those men took out and changed things to fit their needs each time it was re written. So really it isn't the book of god's word anymore. It's the book of man's word and everyone knows you can't trust everything men say.

For those that go to church and believe everything in the bible that's fine. I'm not attacking, to each his own. But I highly doubt those cured gay people are cured. They have been told over and over again that if they continue being gay they will go to hell. They were scared back in the closet and have chosen to act straight in the hope that they won't go to hell.

Have you heard the stories of what the churches do to gay people who go to their clinics that promise to cure you? They use torture and electroshock to turn you straight. The stories I have heard from people's experiences would turn me straight if I was gay.

It also seems pretty sad that god would think it more important to answer the prayers of people wanting to save a gay person than the prayers of a family asking god to let their child live and not die a slow painful death. Hey, maybe I just don't understand god's priorities.

kharmon wrote:

Shouldn't Mccain be unable to run too? He wasn't born in the US.

Mr. McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a Navy officer, were stationed. Normally USA millitary bases are classed US territory.

He was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States, federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."

Obama's mother was a US Citzen, that makes him a citzen doesn't it. I'm not arguing if he should or shouldn't be allowed to run, I just don't know the laws when it comes to citizenship. It's been along time since my government classes.

kharmon wrote:

Obama's mother was a US Citzen, that makes him a citzen doesn't it. I'm not arguing if he should or shouldn't be allowed to run, I just don't know the laws when it comes to citizenship. It's been along time since my government classes.

That is one of the things they are trying to figure out legally.

Still say Bush could be President