2008 Presidential Election Thread

I just watched the Palin interview she gave on CBS on youtube. Guys, you don't seriously can vote for her as your vice president! Please! This is definitely not the political level she is able to play in. What if McCain (not too unlikely considering his age and background) has to step back and Sarah Palin takes his place as president... that really would be a worst case scenario for the US if you ask me.

sometimes I wish I was in your shoes, swiss! Just watching it!

The whole world will be affected by this election i guess. Everybody i know (and with me a big european majority) hopes that Obama will make the race.

How can Palin for example talk about people in Pakistan wanting a democracy? Pakistan is a democracy already. Sarah? I just don't get McCains running mate choice. She is so incompetent in topics like economy and foreign politics. It's hard to listen to her without turning the sound off.
How can she talk about the war in irak won by the US? Not even McCain said the war is won there. And it's indeed far from that...

What do you guys think about this? There's a big lack of understanding in Europe about this woman being the running mate (and the big popularity of McCain too btw).

Debate tonight will be the telling tale...She'd better have more than 5 x 7 cards in front of her...which she will, btw

i odnt care who wins they are al gonaa fuck us over in the end

laprimamirala wrote:

Debate tonight will be the telling tale...She'd better have more than 5 x 7 cards in front of her...which she will, btw

I really would love to see that debate. Maybe/hopefully parts of it on youtube tomorrow.

It is interesting that Palin can make one mistake and be called "not qualified" yet Biden makes gaffes daily, and that is ok!

My belief is that the politicians are just in congress "for themselves" not "for the people!" At present, I will be voting against any congressperson who is in office now! I believe in term limits because the longer these idiots are in, the more corrupt they are! I have a hard time trusting any of them!!! They all say what they think you want to hear, even if they can fulfill the promises or not!

I am a backer of Palin mainly because she was able to fight the corruption in Alaska politics and hope she can do the same thing in Washington. Go Sarah, kick some !

swiss_tiger wrote:

Everybody i know (and with me a big european majority) hopes that Obama will make the race.

Europeans tend to be smart - they've been doing things a lot longer than we have. Might as well listen to them.

Another thing, why can't Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, and the Virgin Islands vote? They're American citizens after all. And don't say it's because they aren't a state - neither is Washington, D.C.

The Republicans are lucky they can't - they'd be screwed if those places got a vote as they're all incredibly Democratic. In the primaries/caucuses in Puerto Rico for example 388,477 people voted in the Democratic one whereas only 208 people voted in the Republican one. There's a similar ratio in the other territories. With a population of almost 4 million people, Puerto Rico falls between Oregon (7 electoral votes) and Kentucky (8 electoral votes). All the other territories are less populated than the least populous state (Wyoming) so maybe they shouldn't vote or combine for 3 electoral votes or whatever.

detroitwings82 wrote:

i odnt care who wins they are al gonaa fuck us over in the end

Some more than others!


But you are right!

Too bad Bush can't run for another term

I would vote for him!

kharmon wrote:

Because you were in the military does not make you an expert in what they want. It just makes you partial to what the military wants. Sorry, but that last paragraph just made any points you were trying to make meaningless. I can't believe people can be so ignorant and racist. Are you going to try to convince people the Holocaust never happened next, or maybe justify it the way you justify slavery.

You're right....my military experience does not make me an expert. I never claimed to be! But...when you hear 1st hand from the people affected most by our military presence in the middle east, it makes a difference. There are people over there counting on us to bring stability to the region. How can you ignore that?

As for the rest of your comment...I chalk it up to typical liberal thinking. Anytime someone disagrees with your line of thinking..automatically we are racists. Bullshit! Some of my best friends are black, and I have voted for blacks many times in the past. To call me a racist is ignorant. What? I'm not allowed to point out the obvious? I wasn't saying slavery was ok in my book....I was mearly pointing out the fact that it takes 2 to tango. It's hipocritical to say that only Americans are responsible for slavery. The early American settlers weren't the only ones responsible for what happened. Besides...like I pointed out...None of us were around when slavery was, so why does it have to be such a big issue now? I thought we were past that stage. It's over...done with...let it rest. To say we have to pay today for something that happend centuries ago is just stupid.

If that were the case with everything, then I want reparations, too. Being part Native American myself..I want my share for the settlers in this country taking over my people's land! Pay ME! See how stupid that sounds? I wasn't alive then...what have I done to deserve reparations? NOTHING. The same thing applies to African Americans. It's not racist thinking...it's just plain common sense. If there is ONE living slave left in this country from the 1800's....I will GLADLY cough up some money to say "I'm Sorry". Funny thing about that is....many of my African American co-workers feel the same way I do..and the same ones are not voting for Obama...does that make them racist against their own people? I didn't think so.

gs78 wrote:

Too bad Bush can't run for another term

I would vote for him!

I don't know if I would or not....but I know who I wouldn't vote for LOL

Ohios#1TigerFan wrote:

kharmon wrote:

Because you were in the military does not make you an expert in what they want. It just makes you partial to what the military wants. Sorry, but that last paragraph just made any points you were trying to make meaningless. I can't believe people can be so ignorant and racist. Are you going to try to convince people the Holocaust never happened next, or maybe justify it the way you justify slavery.

You're right....my military experience does not make me an expert. I never claimed to be! But...when you hear 1st hand from the people affected most by our military presence in the middle east, it makes a difference. There are people over there counting on us to bring stability to the region. How can you ignore that?

But why should we help bring stability over there when we have our own problems here being ignored?

We need to do both....stabilize the middle east AND take care of our own problems here. If we don't deal with the radicals over there...they are bound to hit us again over here. We are the most powerful country in the world...surely there's a way to do both!

Ohios#1TigerFan wrote:

gs78 wrote:

Too bad Bush can't run for another term

I would vote for him!

I don't know if I would or not....but I know who I wouldn't vote for LOL

Obama?

Ohios#1TigerFan wrote:

We need to do both....stabilize the middle east AND take care of our own problems here. If we don't deal with the radicals over there...they are bound to hit us again over here. We are the most powerful country in the world...surely there's a way to do both!

Plenty of European countries are pretty powerful and do much of anything to help out the people in the Middle East and the terrorists tend to leave them alone. Spain had some troops in the Middle East, they were told to get rid of them, didn't and there subways were blown up. They got rid of their troops and have had no problems since. As far as I can tell, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, etc. have been pretty much terrorist attack-free and have pretty much 0 people helping out in the Middle East.

Sarah Palin is not a very good debater.

Ohios#1TigerFan wrote:

kharmon wrote:

Because you were in the military does not make you an expert in what they want. It just makes you partial to what the military wants. Sorry, but that last paragraph just made any points you were trying to make meaningless. I can't believe people can be so ignorant and racist. Are you going to try to convince people the Holocaust never happened next, or maybe justify it the way you justify slavery.

You're right....my military experience does not make me an expert. I never claimed to be! But...when you hear 1st hand from the people affected most by our military presence in the middle east, it makes a difference. There are people over there counting on us to bring stability to the region. How can you ignore that?

As for the rest of your comment...I chalk it up to typical liberal thinking. Anytime someone disagrees with your line of thinking..automatically we are racists. Bullshit! Some of my best friends are black, and I have voted for blacks many times in the past. To call me a racist is ignorant. What? I'm not allowed to point out the obvious? I wasn't saying slavery was ok in my book....I was mearly pointing out the fact that it takes 2 to tango. It's hipocritical to say that only Americans are responsible for slavery. The early American settlers weren't the only ones responsible for what happened. Besides...like I pointed out...None of us were around when slavery was, so why does it have to be such a big issue now? I thought we were past that stage. It's over...done with...let it rest. To say we have to pay today for something that happend centuries ago is just stupid.

If that were the case with everything, then I want reparations, too. Being part Native American myself..I want my share for the settlers in this country taking over my people's land! Pay ME! See how stupid that sounds? I wasn't alive then...what have I done to deserve reparations? NOTHING. The same thing applies to African Americans. It's not racist thinking...it's just plain common sense. If there is ONE living slave left in this country from the 1800's....I will GLADLY cough up some money to say "I'm Sorry". Funny thing about that is....many of my African American co-workers feel the same way I do..and the same ones are not voting for Obama...does that make them racist against their own people? I didn't think so.

I don't think everyone that disagrees with me is racist or ignorant. If you read my post it said your last paragraph was How are to judge me for saying you were ignorant? You called me brain washed for believing what I believe. Sounds like you are the one that thinks your way is the only way.
As far as Native Americans not getting money for being Native Americans that's not true. As long as you have all your papers and your Indian Card you do get money from the government. Over half the people in my family get the money. It varies by tribe what percentage you have to be. My thinking is not typical liberal thinking, thank you. Some of views on issues are rather conservative. I never once said that just because someone isn't voting Obama means they are racist. If you want me to stop jumping to conclusions about people maybe you should take your own advice and lead by example.

bobrob2004 wrote:

Sarah Palin is not a very good debater.

We just finished watching it and I sorta felt bad for her.

I thought Sarah did great. Poor Biden was off on some of his facts.... but that is normal.

I missed it

Watching Cubs-Dodgers instead

Kharmon....I think you totally missed my point! I don't Want anything from the government! Regardless of my heritage, I am an American! I do everything for myself...I don't want any "handouts" from anyone. I think for myself, make my own decisions, I don't "follow the status quo", and I refuse to be influenced by others. I get all the facts, do my own research, and base my decisions on what I find and what suits my lifestyle. I'll be damned if I'm going to ask the government for anything...because as soon as you become dependent on the government for anything, you become a victim of the system. I'm not going to go down that road. I have pride in my own personal accomplishments and won't be held down by "the man".

I wasn't necessarily saying you were brainwashed, but too many times I have been called racist by liberals (or democrats, take your pick) simply because I do not believe the same way they do. Just because I won't vote Obama, everyone jumps to the conclusion that it's because I'm racist. They tell me that I am racist if I don't vote for him because "It's time the white guy votes for a black man." My political choices have nothing to do with race, but all to often people jump to the conclusion that it is just because I won't "go with the flow". I have yet to meet a democrat that didn't think that way. You may be an exception, but your attacks on me lead me to no other conclusion than to think you are just like the rest of 'em. I hope I'm wrong...I really do. But make no mistake, I refuse to sit back and be called ignorant and a racist because I disagree with someone else's politcal views. It just ain't gonna happen. Disagree with me all you want, but I refuse to back down from my beliefs. I may say things that rub others the wrong way, but it's only in attempt to get people to see things from another point of view. Just because they are my opinions, doesn't mean I'm wrong. Sometimes, it does people good to think that maybe....just maybe...there really are 2 sides to every story. I do my part to try and point out what other people refuse to see, or don't want to see. I know all to well that sometimes the "other side" ain't pretty. It's not a mater of who's right and who's wrong...it's about being open-minded.

I'll admit that after watching the Couric interview with Palin I like her a little more. I still won't vote for her, but at least I can agree with her on some of her personal beliefs. If the Republicans do win I will feel a little better that she will be president instead of McCain seeing as his health isn't going to let him be president that long.

kharmon wrote:

I'll admit that after watching the Couric interview with Palin I like her a little more. I still won't vote for her, but at least I can agree with her on some of her personal beliefs. If the Republicans do win I will feel a little better that she will be president instead of McCain seeing as his health isn't going to let him be president that long.

Who says McCain's health gonna fail!

After all; Obama claims that all uninsured people will have the same health care benefits as members of Congress if he is elected.

I didn't mean you were ignorant as a person. I was referring to the slave thing. It had nothing to do with you not not agreeing with me. Everyone, including myself, says things that can be taken as ignorant and racist even if that wasn't how it was suppose to seem. I know I came off like before and making it seem that I can't appreciate anyone else s opinion, but that is not true, it's just that sometimes the words in my head don't come out right. It was the comment about brainwashing that pushed my buttons. My thinking is just that, my thinking. While I am a registered Democrat, I don't consider myself just one party. I vote for the person I think sees thing the way I do. I have voted Republican in more elections than I have voted Democrat. Never voted for president though, this will be my first year, I have only voted in the local or state elections. I never meant to imply that you were looking for a government handout, I just wanted to point out that yes Native Americans can get money, buts that's just because they were here first and technically all the land was theirs.

gs78 wrote:

kharmon wrote:

I'll admit that after watching the Couric interview with Palin I like her a little more. I still won't vote for her, but at least I can agree with her on some of her personal beliefs. If the Republicans do win I will feel a little better that she will be president instead of McCain seeing as his health isn't going to let him be president that long.

Who says McCain's health gonna fail!

After all; Obama claims that all uninsured people will have the same health care benefits as members of Congress if he is elected.

He's 70 something and has already had a stroke. Running for president is very stressful, just the kind of situation that someone with bad health already could find some problems. That's one of the worries people were having when he put his campaign on hold, that his health was slipping. I don't wish him and ill health, but it is very likely that he won't be able to be president and if that happens I feel better because at least there is one person on that side that I can relate to somewhat.

According to some "expert" commentary on the debate tonight, neither one of them did anything all that memorable but they were both successful in not doing anything bad.

As for opinion polling, the AP says this....

A CBS News/Knowledge Networks Poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate found 46 percent thinking Biden won, with 21 percent siding with Palin. A CNN poll found respondents judging Biden the winner by a 51 percent to 39 percent margin.

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

I thought Sarah did great. Poor Biden was off on some of his facts.... but that is normal.

According to the AP they both had lots of facts wrong. I don't feel like counting all the wrong facts by both sides, but the article is here

bobrob2004 wrote:

Sarah Palin is not a very good debater.

I just watched a few minutes worth on Yahoo and I'll say this...I really didn't like how informal Sarah Palin acted. While it is somewhat refreshing to have someone that seems fun, it's not a fun job - it's serious. Saying things like "dog-gonnit" and "I want to give a shout out to (some elementary school) and they all get extra credit for watching" is not really what I want to hear from a vice-Presidential candidate during a debate.

catbox_9 wrote:

Ohios#1TigerFan wrote:

We need to do both....stabilize the middle east AND take care of our own problems here. If we don't deal with the radicals over there...they are bound to hit us again over here. We are the most powerful country in the world...surely there's a way to do both!

Plenty of European countries are pretty powerful and do much of anything to help out the people in the Middle East and the terrorists tend to leave them alone. Spain had some troops in the Middle East, they were told to get rid of them, didn't and there subways were blown up. They got rid of their troops and have had no problems since. As far as I can tell, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, etc. have been pretty much terrorist attack-free and have pretty much 0 people helping out in the Middle East.

Switzerland is quite the exception because we have a neutral position. We will never be actively sending troops to anywhere. We definitely are no target of any terror attacks. Never have been because of our position.

What you americans have to see is that there is no war to win in iraq. You can not win anything there. Every day you are present in their country or even sending more troops is just spending money you should spend back home. There are enough problems you have to solve in your territory i guess (economy, health system, etc).

Catbox you are right i think when you say that Germany or France are not that much in the center of the interest of terrorists because they are not involved in the middle east as much you are. You could ask "why not?" "Why do the US have to do all on their own?". I don't think it's just because they want to avoid terroristic actions in their country but because they respect self-government and the autonomy of countries in the middle east more than the US does. But it's more about the oil than helping the people i think. Let them handle their situation alone, they have to rebuild their country alone. And guess what: they want to do it on their own. They do not want any foreign combat troops in their country. The americans do not help them; they try to control them.
So in my opinion it would be best to leave iraq (Obama) and not try to win a war that can never be won (McCain).

Just some thoughts from an average european.