Bonderman, Robertson safe (but not Galarraga) when Dontrelle

I don't like this 4-man rotation idea. The starters will then only pitch 4 or max 5 innings and relievers have to do the job because of the additional load on the SPs.

gdennis59 wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:: 4-man rotation!

Serious or sarcastic?

Serious. Pitchers now-a-days are too protected. Back in the 60s or 70s it wasn't uncommon for a pitcher to have 25 CG and 300+ innings on 4-man rotations. 12 pitchers in the bullpen is too many also, as any good pitcher can pitch more than 1 inning. Pitchers back then didn't get anymore injured than they do now, yet now they don't have as big of a workload. And they get paid a lot more money. Doesn't quite make sense to me. scratch

I agree. Pitchers are soooooo babied nowadays.

Last edited by GoGetEmTigers on Mon May 19, 2008 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

During one of our games in Boston, the Boston announcers talked to one of their old time pitchers and he complained about this too. He said pitchers now in days are babied too much and the limited pitching makes them RUSTY instead of being worn out! He felt the pitchers are, just plain, not in good physical shape and that is where the injuries come from. He felt this pitch count stuff is crap, and the downfall of good baseball pitchers!

I agree there! If they have to have a 5 man rotation, then make them pitch complete games if they are still pitching ok!

In the next post, look at the top 25 leaders, in Tiger history, in some catagories and see if they are modern pitchers or our old heros!

Wins

Rank	Player	W	IP
1.	Hooks Dauss	222	3390.7
2.	George Mullin	209	3394.0
3.	Mickey Lolich	207	3361.7
4.	Hal Newhouser	200	2944.0
5.	Jack Morris	198	3042.7
6.	Tommy Bridges	194	2826.3
7.	Dizzy Trout	161	2591.7
8.	Bill Donovan	141	2137.3
9.	Earl Whitehill	133	2171.3
10.	Frank Lary	123	2008.7
11.	Dan Petry	119	1843.0
12.	Jim Bunning	118	1867.3
13.	Denny McLain	117	1593.0
14.	Virgil Trucks	114	1800.7
15.	Schoolboy Rowe	105	1445.0
16.	Ed Killian	99	1536.7
17.	Milt Wilcox	97	1495.3
18.	Frank Tanana	96	1551.3
	Ed Willett	96	1545.7
20.	Fred Hutchinson	95	1464.0
21.	Vic Sorrell	92	1671.7
22.	Joe Coleman	88	1407.7
23.	John Hiller	87	1242.0
24.	Paul Foytack	81	1425.3
25.	Walt Terrell	79	1328.0

Games

Rank	Player	G_p	IP
1.	John Hiller	545	1242.0
2.	Hooks Dauss	538	3390.7
3.	Mickey Lolich	508	3361.7
4.	Dizzy Trout	493	2591.7
5.	Mike Henneman	491	669.7
6.	Hal Newhouser	460	2944.0
7.	Todd Jones	450	452.7
8.	George Mullin	435	3394.0
9.	Jack Morris	430	3042.7
10.	Tommy Bridges	424	2826.3
11.	Willie Hernandez	358	483.7
12.	Aurelio Lopez	355	713.0
13.	Hank Aguirre	334	1179.0
14.	Jamie Walker	327	270.0
15.	Earl Whitehill	325	2171.3
16.	Virgil Trucks	316	1800.7
17.	Dan Petry	306	1843.0
18.	Jim Bunning	304	1867.3
	Frank Lary	304	2008.7
20.	Al Benton	296	1218.7
21.	Paul Foytack	285	1425.3
22.	Vic Sorrell	280	1671.7
23.	Hal White	273	820.3
24.	Bill Donovan	261	2137.3
25.	Frank Tanana	250	1551.3

Innings

Rank	Player	IP	IP
1.	George Mullin	3394.0	3394.0
2.	Hooks Dauss	3390.7	3390.7
3.	Mickey Lolich	3361.7	3361.7
4.	Jack Morris	3042.7	3042.7
5.	Hal Newhouser	2944.0	2944.0
6.	Tommy Bridges	2826.3	2826.3
7.	Dizzy Trout	2591.7	2591.7
8.	Earl Whitehill	2171.3	2171.3
9.	Bill Donovan	2137.3	2137.3
10.	Frank Lary	2008.7	2008.7
11.	Jim Bunning	1867.3	1867.3
12.	Dan Petry	1843.0	1843.0
13.	Virgil Trucks	1800.7	1800.7
14.	Vic Sorrell	1671.7	1671.7
15.	Denny McLain	1593.0	1593.0
16.	Frank Tanana	1551.3	1551.3
17.	Ed Willett	1545.7	1545.7
18.	Ed Killian	1536.7	1536.7
19.	Milt Wilcox	1495.3	1495.3
20.	Fred Hutchinson	1464.0	1464.0
21.	Schoolboy Rowe	1445.0	1445.0
22.	Paul Foytack	1425.3	1425.3
23.	Joe Coleman	1407.7	1407.7
24.	Walt Terrell	1328.0	1328.0
25.	Billy Hoeft	1324.7	1324.7

Last edited by GoGetEmTigers on Mon May 19, 2008 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

And now for the hard stuff we don't see today:

Complete Games

Rank	Player	CG	IP
1.	George Mullin	336	3394.0
2.	Hooks Dauss	245	3390.7
3.	Bill Donovan	213	2137.3
4.	Hal Newhouser	212	2944.0
5.	Tommy Bridges	200	2826.3
6.	Mickey Lolich	190	3361.7
7.	Dizzy Trout	156	2591.7
8.	Jack Morris	154	3042.7
9.	Earl Whitehill	147	2171.3
10.	Ed Killian	142	1536.7
11.	Ed Willett	127	1545.7
12.	Frank Lary	123	2008.7
13.	Vic Sorrell	95	1671.7
14.	Denny McLain	94	1593.0
15.	Ed Siever	93	1036.0
16.	Schoolboy Rowe	92	1445.0
17.	Jean Dubuc	90	1145.0
18.	Howard Ehmke	89	1236.3
19.	Virgil Trucks	84	1800.7
20.	Fred Hutchinson	81	1464.0
21.	Ed Summers	79	999.0
22.	Jim Bunning	78	1867.3
23.	Billy Hoeft	71	1324.7
24.	Elden Auker	70	1083.7
25.	Harry Coveleski	68	1023.3
	Frank Kitson	68	683.0
27.	Paul Foytack	63	1425.3
	Milt Wilcox	63	1495.3
29.	George Uhle	62	828.3
30.	Bernie Boland	59	1035.0
31.	Art Houtteman	58	1076.3
32.	Joe Coleman	56	1407.7
	Dutch Leonard	56	830.7
34.	Bobo Newsom	53	760.3
35.	Ted Gray	50	1110.7
	Roscoe Miller	50	480.7
37.	Dan Petry	48	1843.0
38.	Al Benton	47	1218.7
	Ned Garver	47	702.0
	Don Mossi	47	929.7
41.	Lil Stoner	45	984.3
42.	Walt Terrell	44	1328.0
43.	Hank Aguirre	41	1179.0
44.	Ownie Carroll	40	666.0
45.	Earl Wilson	39	962.3
46.	Stubby Overmire	38	830.7
47.	Ken Holloway	37	976.7
	Joe Yeager	37	348.7
49.	Dave Rozema	36	1007.3
50.	Steve Gromek	35	724.0
	Red Oldham	35	759.7

Shutouts

Rank	Player	SHO	IP
1.	Mickey Lolich	39	3361.7
2.	George Mullin	34	3394.0
3.	Tommy Bridges	33	2826.3
	Hal Newhouser	33	2944.0
5.	Bill Donovan	29	2137.3
6.	Dizzy Trout	28	2591.7
7.	Denny McLain	26	1593.0
8.	Jack Morris	24	3042.7
9.	Hooks Dauss	22	3390.7
10.	Frank Lary	20	2008.7
	Virgil Trucks	20	1800.7
12.	Ed Killian	19	1536.7
13.	Jim Bunning	16	1867.3
	Billy Hoeft	16	1324.7
	Schoolboy Rowe	16	1445.0
16.	Fred Hutchinson	13	1464.0
17.	Ed Willett	12	1545.7
18.	Joe Coleman	11	1407.7
	Jean Dubuc	11	1145.0
	Art Houtteman	11	1076.3
	Ed Siever	11	1036.0
	Earl Whitehill	11	2171.3
23.	Bernie Boland	10	1035.0
	Howard Ehmke	10	1236.3
	Dan Petry	10	1843.0
	Joe Sparma	10	835.3
27.	Elden Auker	9	1083.7
	Harry Coveleski	9	1023.3
	Stubby Overmire	9	830.7
	Ed Summers	9	999.0
	Walt Terrell	9	1328.0
32.	Al Benton	8	1218.7
	Dutch Leonard	8	830.7
	Bobo Newsom	8	760.3
	Vic Sorrell	8	1671.7
36.	Hank Aguirre	7	1179.0
	Paul Foytack	7	1425.3
	Ted Gray	7	1110.7
	Steve Gromek	7	724.0
	Willie Mitchell	7	330.7
	Don Mossi	7	929.7
	Dave Rozema	7	1007.3
	Frank Tanana	7	1551.3
	Hal White	7	820.3
	Milt Wilcox	7	1495.3
	Earl Wilson	7	962.3
47.	Rip Collins	6	743.0
	John Hiller	6	1242.0
	Brian Moehler	6	809.0
50.	Doyle Alexander	5	540.3
	Mark Fidrych	5	412.3
	Frank Kitson	5	683.0
	Jeff Robinson	5	522.3
	George Uhle	5	828.3

And did they have short careers because of all this pitching?? Not really!

Mickey Lolich - 16 years
George Mullin - 14 years
Hal Newhouser - 17 years
Dizzy Trout - 15 years
Jack Morris - 18 years
Jim Bunning - 17 years
Virgil Trucks - 17 years
Joe Coleman - 15 years
Hooks Dauss - 15 years
Milt Wilcox - 16 years

Great stats, gogetem.....you are awesome!!

tigersaint wrote:: Great stats, gogetem.....you are awesome!!

that's why she's the boss! bow

bobrob2004 wrote:: 4-man rotation!

Now make it 3 and I'll really like it!

bobrob2004 wrote:

gdennis59 wrote:

bobrob2004 wrote:: 4-man rotation!

Serious or sarcastic?

Serious. Pitchers now-a-days are too protected. Back in the 60s or 70s it wasn't uncommon for a pitcher to have 25 CG and 300+ innings on 4-man rotations. 12 pitchers in the bullpen is too many also, as any good pitcher can pitch more than 1 inning. Pitchers back then didn't get anymore injured than they do now, yet now they don't have as big of a workload. And they get paid a lot more money. Doesn't quite make sense to me. scratch

Well said!

I'm testing that theory on MLB '08 The Show. My Giants and their 4-man rotation are in first place. And 12 bullpen pitchers is WAY too many. I have 2 closers and 4 other guys (and therefore a 10 man pitching staff). That's plenty! Why 2 closers? Well my closers only come in when they're needed and will often pitch 3 innings and therefore be unable to pitch the next day. If the lead is 3 going into the 9th you can be sure the closer will not be in the game. I had a 12 man pitching staff but at the end of the first month 2 of my pitchers hadn't been used! They're gone!

That leaves FIFTEEN hitters which allows me to have the ultimate platoon advantage:

Against lefty starters: My lineup consists of 7 right-handed batters and a lefty (and the pitcher).

Against righty starters: My lineup consists of 8 left-handed bats and the pitcher.

NOTE: there's some switch hitters in there, too.

Oh yeah, they're currently in first place Stunned

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