Manny to The Dodgers, Bay to Red Sox

07/31/2008 3:00 AM ET
Gone fishing: Manny Florida bound?
Sox would ship slugger to Marlins, get Bay from Pirates
By Ian Browne / MLB.com

BOSTON -- Could it be that Manny Ramirez's last official act with the Boston Red Sox was a flyout to the warning track in left-center field in the eighth inning of Wednesday's 9-2 loss to the Angels?

It was certainly possible, with the Red Sox spending much of the day and night talking to the Marlins and Pirates about a complex three-way deal which would surely send a jolt throughout the baseball world.

Ultimately, Ramirez would bring his future Hall of Fame bat to the Marlins, where he would presumably serve as a rental for the remainder of 2008. Pirates outfielder Jason Bay, who has put up numbers this season that are similar to Ramirez's, would come to Boston. And 24-year-old Marlins outfielder Jeremy Hermida would go to the Pirates.

However, the negotiations were hardly that simple, which is why the sides might need to work at it right until Thursday's 4 p.m. ET non-waiver Trade Deadline.

Several prospects would also have to switch hands in the deal, which could prove to be a sticking point.

"This is anything but done," a Red Sox official told ESPN.com a little before midnight.

Reached at his home following Boston's 9-2 loss to the Angels on Wednesday by ESPNdeportes.com's Enrique Rojas, Ramirez didn't sound optimistic a deal would be struck.

"If something happens, it will not be tonight," said Ramirez. "And frankly, I don't think that will ever happen. Let's wait if something happens before 4 p.m. Thursday.

"This situation is not a strange one for me because it's more of the same story in my eight years in Boston."

Because he is a 10-5 man (10 years in the Majors, five with one team), Ramirez has the right to veto any trade. However, the Marlins would seemingly be a good fit for the rest of 2008, given that Ramirez has had a home in South Florida for several years and spends most of his offseason there. According to reports, the Red Sox would be expected to pay a large sum -- if not all -- of Ramriez's remaining 2008 salary.

Ramirez's salary contains club options of $20 million for 2009 and '10. If Ramirez goes to the Marlins, who have a payroll of $22 million this season, it is a virtual certainty the club would not pick up his option.

Fully aware of the rumors that swirled around him, Ramirez walked through the clubhouse before Wednesday's 0-for-3 performance and uttered in a playful voice, "Oh yeah, Marlins. Tax-free. Stay at home."

Marlins president David Samson, speaking on a South Florida radio station, didn't rule out his team acquiring Ramirez's big bat.

"The Marlins always seem to be in the middle of everything," Samson said on WAXY-AM. "It takes two to tango. We're looking everywhere. We're making calls. We're getting calls. But we're not going to be stupid. I've always told you everything is possible. There are all sorts of crazy things. There's no way to say which trades are going to happen."

The Red Sox have been deeply involved in potential trades involving Ramirez in the past, only to see them fall through at the end. Most notable was a three-way scenario in July 2005, when Ramirez appeared close to going to the Mets.

"Every year it's like this," said Red Sox catcher Jason Varitek. "This is so out of our hands. Even this year, it's out of our hands. I just think that this team needs to take a step past that and focus on playing baseball."

"I think, around here, there's a lot more smoke than fire. If something happens, it happens," said Sox third baseman Mike Lowell.

Coincidence or not, the Red Sox have gone into a serious funk since the Ramirez rumors began to surface, losing five of the first six games in their current nine-game homestand.

"If he's out there Friday, then from Friday on, this is who we're going to be," said Red Sox shortstop Alex Cora. "If he's not, we'll see. We don't decide that. If he's here, we're going to pull for him the same way he pulls for us."

Unlike rumors of a deal to the Phillies, which gained some steam on Tuesday and were immediately dismissed, the speculation that the Red Sox and Marlins proved to be far more substantial.

It is hard to fathom the Red Sox would make a move involving Ramirez unless they got a somewhat comparable bat in return. Bay is hitting .284 with 22 homers and 62 RBIs, compared to Ramirez's .299 average, 20 homers and 68 RBIs.

While all was well between Ramirez and the Red Sox for the first couple of months of 2008, things have taken a sour turn in recent weeks.

"The Red Sox don't deserve a player like me," Ramirez reportedly told ESPN Deportes on Wednesday. "During my years here, I've seen how [the Red Sox] have mistreated other great players when they didn't want them to try to turn the fans against them. The Red Sox did the same with guys like Nomar Garciaparra and Pedro Martinez, and now they do the same with me. Their goal is to paint me as the bad guy. I love Boston fans, but the Red Sox don't deserve me. I'm not talking about money. Mental peace has no price, and I don't have peace here."

Those comments were made in Spanish, and translated into English on ESPN.com.

NESN broadcaster and former Red Sox player Jerry Remy said in a radio interview Wednesday morning that Ramirez had made similar comments to him earlier this week about wanting to get out of Boston so he could have "peace."

As for the most recent rift between Ramirez and the Red Sox, it seemed to start on June 28 in Houston. That was the day Ramirez put traveling secretary Jack McCormick to the floor following a spat over tickets. Though the Red Sox never went public with their discipline, it's believed that Ramirez was issued a fine that went to charity.

At the All-Star Game, Ramirez, in an interview with the Boston Herald, criticized the Red Sox's ownership and front office, saying they haven't been straightforward with him regarding their future plans with his option. Red Sox principal owner John W. Henry said the next day that Ramirez's remarks were "personally offensive."

Another controversy started when Ramirez told the Red Sox he couldn't play against the Mariners on July 23, and again against the Yankees two days later, because of right knee soreness.

Before sending Ramirez out for an MRI on both knees -- which came back negative -- members of ownership and the front office, as well as manager Terry Francona, held a closed-door meeting with the seemingly disgruntled slugger.

Reportedly, the Red Sox were pondering disciplinary action if Ramirez again made himself unavailable in the second game of the series against the Yankees, but he returned to the lineup that day.

On Sunday, Ramirez made his first public comments in a while, saying he would waive his no-trade rights if the Red Sox found a new destination for him, and also adding, "I'm tired of them, they're tired of me."

Cora, who has a good relationship with Ramirez, thinks his friend would be able to handle staying with the Red Sox if the deal with Florida falls through.

"Out of the last four years, I've seen him in that [World Series] parade and he's seemed pretty happy," Cora said. "Regardless of what happens, the guy has to play. It's about his future. If he's gone, he's going to play hard for that team and try to win a World Series over there. If he stays here, I guarantee he's going to try to win a World Series here."

Ian Browne is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

Manny blockbuster 'dead' ... for now

As of 1:30 p.m. ET, the Manny Ramirez trade was "dead," according to an executive with one of the three teams involved in the discussions.

However, the deal has taken numerous twists and turns over the past 24 hours, and the Red Sox can continue attempting to trade Ramirez until the non-waiver deadline at 4 p.m. ET.

The Red Sox, Marlins and Pirates have been talking seriously for the past 24 to 36 hours about a deal involving Ramirez.

The collapse of the talks will spur further discussions between the Pirates and Rays over a deal involving Pirates left fielder Jason Bay.

In the proposed Manny blockbuster, the Marlins were to trade outfielder Jeremy Hermida and a prospect for Ramirez, and the Red Sox would then flip Hermida and prospects to the Pirates for Bay.

The Pirates' return for Bay, sources say, was the apparent holdup in the deal. The Pirates are seeking an "appropriate return for an All-Star caliber left fielder" — and one who is affordable at $5.75 million this season and $7.5 million in 2009.

The Red Sox sought additional prospects from the Marlins in their attempt to satisfy the Pirates, sources say, but the Marlins would not budge from their initial offer.

To trade Bay, who turns 30 on Sept. 20, the Pirates presumably would need to exceed the offer they received from the Braves last week — Class AAA outfielder Brandon Jones, Class AAA shortstop Brent Lillibridge and two pitchers in the low minors.

Two prominent Marlins prospects who have been mentioned — Class AA right-hander Ryan Tucker and Class A outfielder Michael Stanton — will not be traded, multiple sources said.

The advanced level of the discussions indicates that the Marlins believe that Ramirez's right knee is healthy enough for him to be a significant upgrade over Hermida — and that he would not disrupt a clubhouse full of hungry players, many of whom have a shared history with the organization.

The Red Sox and Marlins, however, have yet to notify the commissioner's office that they have a deal in place, two sources said. Approval from the commissioner is required for any trade that involves a cash transaction of more than $1 million.

In any case, here is how a deal could work:

# The Red Sox would pay nearly all of the approximately $7 million remaining on Ramirez's salary.

# Ramirez would waive his no-trade clause in exchange for the right to become a free agent at the end of the season.

# Ramirez would agree to decline salary arbitration when the Marlins offered it in December, enabling the team to preserve its right to draft-pick compensation.

This Red Sox fan may not get his wish. (Charles Krupa / Associated Press)

The Marlins-Red Sox exchange would follow the template of the deal struck Tuesday by the Angels, who acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira from the Braves for first baseman Casey Kotchman and Class AA right-hander Stephen Marek, a mid-level pitching prospect.

Ramirez, 36, would be a two-month rental, the equivalent of Teixeira. Josh Willingham or Hermida would be the equivalent of Kotchman, a player the Red Sox would control through his three arbitration years.

The difference is, the Marlins would stand virtually no chance of signing Ramirez, and they also lack an obvious replacement for Hermida. The Angels could either keep Teixeira or replace him with Class AAA first baseman Kendry Morales next season.

The Marlins, though, routinely think outside the box. In essence, all of their players are rentals, at least once they reach arbitration.

Ramirez appeals to the Marlins because he would be an extremely motivated player, eager to prove himself worthy of a four-year, free-agent contract worth at least $80 million.

The addition of Bay, meanwhile, would be a coup for the Red Sox, who would be acquiring a younger right-handed hitter whose .894 on-base/slugging percentage is nearly as high as Ramirez's .927 mark this season.

Rays to Acquire Bay

With the three-way deal between the Pirates, Red Sox, and Marlins falling through, an MLB.com source says that the Rays are going to acquire right-handed hitting outfielder Jason Bay for Minor League prospects including shortstop Reid Brignac and right-hander Jeff Niemann. The Rays have not confirmed the deal.

Bay not a Ray ... yet

As the deadline quickly approaches, rumors were abuzz that Jason Bay was headed to Tampa in return for shortstop Reid Brignac and pitcher Jeff Niemann. But not so fast.

A source has told me there is no done deal... yet. One of the above names has not been made available. I've got no confirmation on this, but my guess is that Brignac is the one the Rays won't part with.

More as this develops...

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The Rays' pursuit of Pirates outfielder Jason Bay is off "unless a miracle happens," according to a source close to the negotiations.

Whether that means the three-way Manny Ramirez blockbuster is back on remains to be seen.

A source with one of the clubs said that the trade was still dead in the minutes leading to Thursday's 4 p.m. ET non-waiver deadline.

The Pirates have been talking with other teams about Bay as well.

As of 1:30 p.m. ET, the Ramirez trade was "dead," according to an executive with one of the three teams involved in the discussions.

However, the deal has taken numerous twists and turns over the past 24 hours, and the teams kept trying to piece together the blockbuster.

In the initial proposed trade, the Marlins were to trade outfielder Jeremy Hermida and a prospect for Ramirez, and the Red Sox then would flip Hermida and prospects to the Pirates for Bay.

The Pirates' return for Bay, sources say, was the apparent holdup in the deal. The Pirates are seeking an "appropriate return for an All-Star caliber left fielder" — and one who is affordable at $5.75 million this season and $7.5 million in 2009.

Bay in Dodger blue?

After all the talks about Bay heading to Tampa Bay or Boston, it appears that the Dodgers may have landed the Pirates left fielder just prior to the 4 p.m. ET deadline.

MLB.com has confirmed that they were a late player in the race for Bay and that it was L.A. One industry source in Pittsburgh believes that a deal between the two clubs has been made.

Also, keep in mind that after talks fizzled regarding a three-way deal with Boston/Florida/Pittsburgh, the Dodgers jumped into the ring as a possible suitor for Manny Ramirez. If so, there could be a scenario in which the Red Sox still landed Bay while the Dodgers got Ramirez. This remains pure speculation, but the addition of the Dodgers in the mix certainly has made it a possibility.

Stay tuned for more details.

Manny traded to Dodgers, Bay headed to Boston

The Red Sox traded Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers late Thursday afternoon, SI.com has learned.

Jason Bay is headed to Boston as part of the deal, SI.com has learned. The Pirates will get four minor leaguers in the three-way trade.

The Red Sox went back-and-forth with the Marlins and Dodgers as the 4 p.m. ET deadline approached. Ramirez said earlier today, as first reported by SI.com, that he would accept a trade to any team.

The announcement will be made in conjunction with a World Baseball Classic announcement at Dodger Stadium shortly.

A second source confirms it...

Ramirez Traded to the Dodgers

By Jack Curry

The Boston Red Sox have finally traded the unhappy Manny Ramirez. The slugger will go to the Los Angeles Dodgers in a three-way trade that also involves the Red Sox getting Jason Bay from the Pittsburgh Pirates.

After the Red Sox tried to coordinate a three-way deal that would have seen Ramirez going to the Florida Marlins, Bay moving to Boston from the Pirates and Jeremy Hermida relocating to Florida from Pittsburgh, the talks fizzled. But the Red Sox kept pushing with the Dodgers and made the move.

Ramirez has criticized the Red Sox twice in the last five days, presumably hoping to help push his way out of Boston. He is in the final year of an eight-year, $160 million deal.

Stupid fish... stupid stupid stupid

SoulRat wrote:

Stupid fish... stupid stupid stupid

They didn't get Pudge either


Rather have seen Pudge with the Fish than the Evil Empire

In reality they needed pudge a LOT more than they needed Manny. They didn't really need Manny at all, he just would have been nice. But pudge, pudge they needed. Pudge didn't want to be a fish from what I heard

great..im gonna see him when i go to dodger stadium...just greaaaaaat.

SoulRat wrote:

In reality they needed pudge a LOT more than they needed Manny. They didn't really need Manny at all, he just would have been nice. But pudge, pudge they needed. Pudge didn't want to be a fish from what I heard

Which is a shame


Probably would have got a better deal with the

And Jason "Slugger" Bay to the Sox... must be a fire sale in Pittsburgh... he was their best player!

Pirates are stupid! And here I was thinking of going to a game there! Forget it now!

gs78 wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

In reality they needed pudge a LOT more than they needed Manny. They didn't really need Manny at all, he just would have been nice. But pudge, pudge they needed. Pudge didn't want to be a fish from what I heard

Which is a shame


Probably would have got a better deal with the

Well, the Tigers needed relief pitching and the fish... well... they have none So they had nothing the Tigers wanted anyways. Man, they need a catcher though

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

And Jason "Slugger" Bay to the Sox... must be a fire sale in Pittsburgh... he was their best player!

Pirates are stupid! And here I was thinking of going to a game there! Forget it now!

I'm mad at the stupid Pirates! They didn't take Hermida and now the fish are stuck with him (I guess they really aren't stupid )

What the heck happened to our Mr Rabello??? He was not that bad in Detroit... actually he may be better than Dane!

He got sent down to AAA after a really bad mental game and then he hurt his hand and is on the DL

SoulRat wrote:

He got sent down to AAA after a really bad mental game and then he hurt his hand and is on the DL

Poor Mike, I miss him!

mrsrabelo wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

He got sent down to AAA after a really bad mental game and then he hurt his hand and is on the DL

Poor Mike, I miss him!

Me too

Maybe we can get him back for next year! Give them Nate in exchange, or Sheff....

As much as I'd like to see Rabelo back in Detroit... um... NO to Nate or Sheff.

I bet the Tigers could get him back cheap though, the fish seem to have given up on him

SoulRat wrote:

gs78 wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

In reality they needed pudge a LOT more than they needed Manny. They didn't really need Manny at all, he just would have been nice. But pudge, pudge they needed. Pudge didn't want to be a fish from what I heard

Which is a shame


Probably would have got a better deal with the

Well, the Tigers needed relief pitching and the fish... well... they have none So they had nothing the Tigers wanted anyways. Man, they need a catcher though

The Tigers have Zumaya, Rodney, Jones, Seay, Lopez, Rapada, Dolsi and Fossum on their roster


How much more relief pitching do you need?


Let the Starters throw more innings and have more CG's

Stupid Dodgers I mean its' great to see Ramirez go, but not to the Dodgers. That division is so awful they might win it now

C'mon Dbacks!

catbox_9 wrote:

Stupid Dodgers I mean its' great to see Ramirez go, but not to the Dodgers. That division is so awful they might win it now

C'mon Dbacks!

Dodgers gonna win the NL West

gs78 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Stupid Dodgers I mean its' great to see Ramirez go, but not to the Dodgers. That division is so awful they might win it now

C'mon Dbacks!

Dodgers gonna win the NL West

No, Dbacks are better. Pitching wins championships and the Dbacks have plenty.

gs78 wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

gs78 wrote:

SoulRat wrote:

In reality they needed pudge a LOT more than they needed Manny. They didn't really need Manny at all, he just would have been nice. But pudge, pudge they needed. Pudge didn't want to be a fish from what I heard

Which is a shame


Probably would have got a better deal with the

Well, the Tigers needed relief pitching and the fish... well... they have none So they had nothing the Tigers wanted anyways. Man, they need a catcher though

The Tigers have Zumaya, Rodney, Jones, Seay, Lopez, Rapada, Dolsi and Fossum on their roster


How much more relief pitching do you need?


Let the Starters throw more innings and have more CG's

Tigers thought they needed more.

gs78 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Stupid Dodgers I mean its' great to see Ramirez go, but not to the Dodgers. That division is so awful they might win it now

C'mon Dbacks!

Dodgers gonna win the NL West

No they won't.

SoulRat wrote:

gs78 wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Stupid Dodgers I mean its' great to see Ramirez go, but not to the Dodgers. That division is so awful they might win it now

C'mon Dbacks!

Dodgers gonna win the NL West

No they won't.

Yes they will .