Catholic bishops will fight Obama on abortion

Article published Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Catholic bishops will fight Obama on abortion
Funds for ACORN cut over embezzling
ASSOCIATED PRESS

BALTIMORE - The nation's Roman Catholic bishops vowed yesterday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights, saying the church and religious freedom could be under attack in the new administration.

In an impassioned discussion on Catholics in public life, several bishops said they would accept no compromise on abortion policy. Many condemned Catholics who had argued it was morally acceptable to back President-elect Barack Obama because he pledged to reduce abortion rates.

Several prelates promised to call out Catholic policy makers on their failures to follow church teaching. Bishop Joseph Martino of Scranton, Pa., said he planned to counter Vice President-elect Joe Biden, a Catholic and Scranton native who backs abortion rights.

"I cannot have a vice president-elect coming to Scranton to say he's learned his values there when those values are utterly against the teachings of the Catholic Church," the bishop said.

The Obama-Biden press office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Archbishop Joseph Naumann of the Diocese of Kansas City in Kansas said politicians "can't check your principles at the door of the legislature."

Chicago Cardinal Francis George, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops president, is preparing a statement that will press Mr. Obama on abortion.

During the campaign, many prelates spoke out on abortion more boldly than in 2004, telling Catholic politicians and voters the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding whom to back.

Yet, according to exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Mr. Obama, who is Protestant.

Also yesterday, a community grant-making arm of the bishops has cut off all funding for a group embroiled in controversy over claims of voter registration fraud and embezzlement.

The Catholic Campaign for Human Development, which supports anti-poverty and social justice programs nationwide, will no longer make grants to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, known as ACORN, said Auxiliary Bishop Robert Morin of New Orleans.

The decision was made following claims that nearly $1 million had been embezzled from ACORN by the brother of its founder.

They'll never win.

GO CATHOLIC BISHOPS!

Fuck Obama!

catbox_9 wrote:

They'll never win.

True


But I want to see people fight Obama


Wonder how long before blacks start calling the Catholic Church Racist?

funny that many Cs voted for Obama

laprimamirala wrote:

funny that many Cs voted for Obama

I'm a Catholic and I'm not ashamed to say I voted for Obama.

I'm really confused on the issue though. Not the abortion issue; I'm 100% against abortion. I'm talking about how to value my religious beliefs against by country's beliefs. It's a fine line. On one hand, I'm going against my religion, but on the other hand I'm going against my country. Which is why I'm never going to vote based on just one issue. I'm going to weigh all the issues, consider both my religious beliefs and my country's beliefs, and make the best possible decision. This time it just happened to be Obama.

and that's the way it should be.
American Catholics are definitely not on the same wavelength as their bishops!

laprimamirala wrote:

funny that many Cs voted for Obama

That is the Catholic Church for you!


In an unrelated note


Madonna University will no longer be known as the Crusaders


PC strikes again

What is wrong with Crusaders


They fought the Muslims


In the Holy Wars

Batman was known as the Caped Crusader


He fought the Joker, Penguin and Riddler


Made Gotham City Safer

so what will they be?

laprimamirala wrote:

so what will they be?

Who knows?


Something Stupid Probably

Except for Rape, Incest or when the Mother's Life is in Jeopardy


I am against Abortion


Especially that Partial Term Stuff

gs78 wrote:

Except for Rape, Incest or when the Mother's Life is in Jeopardy


I am against Abortion


Especially that Partial Term Stuff

I agree with you GS. When it comes to abortion, I would rather be on God's side, and stand with HIM (the Bishops are just standing on the Word of God), than go against his beliefs, and have to justify my disobedience to Him when I die! The Catholic church is not the only church group that feels this way. I have learned the hard way, that if God says it... that settles it, it dont matter if I believe it! For Years I heard the saying "If God says it, And I believe it, that settles it." It does not matter is we agree, God set the standards to make life better for us.

And unlike taught in our unholy modern secular schools, This country was set up as a place of freedom for Christian believers to choose the church of their choice, not just the Church of England! Our laws and constitution, as set up by our founding fathers, is based on the Bible, and the 10 commandments. The founders left it open for non-believers to exist here safely, but they are expected to follow the laws of the land. Remember it is "Freedom OF religion", not FROM religion.

Some Proof of our being set up as a Christian Nation (or Judio-Christian):

Quote :

William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the
children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance
and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel
of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"

The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford)
1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”

Quote :

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and
now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and
immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance
by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration
was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government
of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] | .......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!

Samuel Adams: Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness
obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His
aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers,
Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have
been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May
1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

Continued in next post

Speaking of religion....

Why is it that Christians and Muslims don't keep kosher? I haven't read up on everything, but it is my understanding that most of the laws that describe what is and isn't kosher come from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Does the New Testament repeal Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

Quote :

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be
thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Samuel Johnston:

• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the
power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)

• In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.

“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress “It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”

• A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven. [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah
33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History:
The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]

James McHenry – Signer of the Constitution
Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.

Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."

John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg
In a sermon delivered to his Virginia congregation on Jan. 21, 1776, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3. Arriving at verse 8, which declares that there is a time of war and a time of peace, Muhlenberg noted that this surely was not the time of peace; this was the time of war. Concluding with a prayer, and while standing in full view of the congregation, he removed his clerical robes to reveal that beneath them he was wearing the uniform of an officer in the Continental army! He marched to the back of the church; ordered the drum to beat for recruits and over three hundred men joined him, becoming the Eighth Virginia Brigade. John Peter Muhlenberg finished the Revolution as a Major-General, having been at Valley Forge and having participated in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stonypoint, and Yorktown.

Quote :

Thomas Paine:
“It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

“The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied
ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”

Benjamin Rush:
• “I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and
take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism.” “By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.” [Letter written (1790’s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
• “Christianity is the only true and perfect religion.”
• “If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary.”

"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write
and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and
obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education”
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787

Justice Joseph Story:
“I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

“Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of
credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]

“At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to
it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

Noah Webster:
“The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments,
consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe
immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”

“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the
first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be
instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]

Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the
citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]

“All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.” [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]

“The Bible was America’s basic textbook in all fields.” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]

“Education is useless without the Bible” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]

George Washington:

Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."

“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of
Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]

During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.

Nelly Custis-Lewis (Washington’s adopted daughter):
Is it necessary that any one should [ask], “Did General Washington avow
himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his
patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."

“ O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I
acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance
of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and
forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”

“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I
have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and
broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”
[George Washington; from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752
William J. Johnson George Washington, the Christian (New York: The
Abingdon Press, New York & Cincinnati, 1919), pp. 24-35.]

"Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official
duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors". [1797 letter to John Adams]

James Wilson:
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution
Supreme Court Justice appointed by George Washington
Spoke 168 times during the Constitutional Convention

"Christianity is part of the common law"
[Sources: James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted
in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).]

________________________________________________________________________
Public Institutions
Liberty Bell Inscription:
“ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” [Leviticus 25:10]

Proposals for the seal of the United States of America
• “Moses lifting his wand and dividing the Red Sea” –Ben Franklin

• “The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.” --Thomas Jefferson

On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson
and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States
of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the
parting of the Red Sea. Jefferson first recommended the "Children of
Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire
by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it

Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20, 1776.

Another popular proposal to the Great Seal of the United States was:
" Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"; with Pharoah's army drowning
in the Red Sea


The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive
• At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the
plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered
this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read
Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”

Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware (1776)
Required all officers, besides taking an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe to the following declaration:
• "I, [name], do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief
constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.

New England Primer:
Used in public and private schools from 1690 to 1900 second only to the Bible
Some of its contents:
A song of praise to God
Prayers in Jesus’ name
The famous Bible alphabet
Shorter Catechism of faith in Christ

catbox_9 wrote:

Speaking of religion....

Why is it that Christians and Muslims don't keep kosher? I haven't read up on everything, but it is my understanding that most of the laws that describe what is and isn't kosher come from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Does the New Testament repeal Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

You are correct catbox, it is in the NT that God told Peter, in a vision, that it is permissible for man to not follow the kosher directions. They were originally put in place, by God, because of health matters. By the time Jesus came, there were doctors and they understood the dangers of undercooked meat (trichinosis, ect). I will look up the verses for you. A lot of the laws were for health or sanitary matters, or concepts not understood by men at that time. One area is mildew on clothes. We know now how to treat mildew so it does not spread from one item of clothing to contaminate all clothing. Back then the only safe way was to burn the mildewed clothing.

There are some groups of Christians and Muslims that do still follow kosher type laws, but very few.

Interesting. Thanks.

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Speaking of religion....

Why is it that Christians and Muslims don't keep kosher? I haven't read up on everything, but it is my understanding that most of the laws that describe what is and isn't kosher come from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Does the New Testament repeal Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

You are correct catbox, it is in the NT that God told Peter, in a vision, that it is permissible for man to not follow the kosher directions. They were originally put in place, by God, because of health matters. By the time Jesus came, there were doctors and they understood the dangers of undercooked meat (trichinosis, ect). I will look up the verses for you. A lot of the laws were for health or sanitary matters, or concepts not understood by men at that time. One area is mildew on clothes. We know now how to treat mildew so it does not spread from one item of clothing to contaminate all clothing. Back then the only safe way was to burn the mildewed clothing.

There are some groups of Christians and Muslims that do still follow kosher type laws, but very few.

They sell Kosher Hot Dogs at Comerica Park

gs78 wrote:

GoGetEmTigers wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Speaking of religion....

Why is it that Christians and Muslims don't keep kosher? I haven't read up on everything, but it is my understanding that most of the laws that describe what is and isn't kosher come from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Does the New Testament repeal Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

You are correct catbox, it is in the NT that God told Peter, in a vision, that it is permissible for man to not follow the kosher directions. They were originally put in place, by God, because of health matters. By the time Jesus came, there were doctors and they understood the dangers of undercooked meat (trichinosis, ect). I will look up the verses for you. A lot of the laws were for health or sanitary matters, or concepts not understood by men at that time. One area is mildew on clothes. We know now how to treat mildew so it does not spread from one item of clothing to contaminate all clothing. Back then the only safe way was to burn the mildewed clothing.

There are some groups of Christians and Muslims that do still follow kosher type laws, but very few.

They sell Kosher Hot Dogs at Comerica Park

Are regular hot dogs kosher? Regular hot dogs are what....rat, leather, and horse?

kosher in that particular instance means the animal was killed according to certain reglious norms that are said to spare the animal from undue suffering.

laprimamirala wrote:

kosher in that particular instance means the animal was killed according to certain reglious norms that are said to spare the animal from undue suffering.

and contain no pork, or meat from the back part of the cow. It gets complicated.

My mom wants to know why only certain cuts of beef can be used...

"Hebrew national commercials show this and say "Now butts about it."

the reason that only certain parts are used is that some parts of the cow have a high fat contyent andis not good for use at and is really bad ... at least thats what i heard.. not 100 percent sure..

What is the only invertebrate that is kosher?

Spoiler:

Here is a list of unclean animals (who would eat most of these anyways?):
* Bat
* Camel
* Chameleon
* Coney
* Cormorant
* Cuckow
* Eagle
* Ferret
* Gier Eagle
* Glede
* Great Owl
* Hare
* Hawk
* Heron
* Kite
* Lapwing
* Little Owl
* Lizard
* Mole
* Mouse
* Night Hawk
* Osprey
* Ostrich
* Ossifrage
* Owl
* Pelican
* Raven
* Snail
* Stork
* Swine
* Tortoise
* Vulture
* Weasel

Jesus Christ



I may never eat another hot dog again

gs78 wrote:

Jesus Christ



I may never eat another hot dog again

Don't worry, Michigan has one of the most strictest laws for what they can include in a hot dog. Hot dogs in Michigan are probably safer than anywhere else.

bobrob2004 wrote:

gs78 wrote:

Jesus Christ



I may never eat another hot dog again

Don't worry, Michigan has one of the most strictest laws for what they can include in a hot dog. Hot dogs in Michigan are probably safer than anywhere else.