The stupidity of the save statistic.

Tonight is yet another reason why the save is the dumbest stat in all of sports.

Papelbon threw 2 pitches in the 8th in a "save situation". His team ended up scoring 4 times in the 9th so the lead was 6. Despite that, Francona went ahead and sent him out for the 9th. Why? To record a save.

Even a bad AA reliever can give up 5 runs an inning (ERA of 45.00).

For anyone that's still thinks saves are a meaningful stat consider this:

On August 22, 2007 Wes Littleton pitched 3 innings and got a save. That seems impressive (who collects 3 inning saves anymore?) until you consider the score - the Rangers won the game 30-3. Just what the hell was he saving? I'd be willing to bet a high school pitcher could protect a 27 run lead.

Here's an even better example (at least Littleton pitched shutout baseball)...

On 6/6/1973 Dave Goltz entered the game protecting a 7-1 lead. He ended up pitching 3 innings with this line:
3 IP, 13 hits (4! HR), 8!! ER. He was of course credited with a save. 8 ER in 3 innings - now that's slamming the door!
On an interesting note, just 2,033 people were at Cleveland Stadium to see this.

Holds are becoming more important than saves!

Well, I think that the W-L stat is a bit deceiving anyways. For example Miller's last start, he ended up with a no decision because the fish by some miracle won, but the way he pitched, he should have gotten 2 losses

But yeah gs, all I hear about anymore from the announcers is about holds.

But Miller is getting some K's at least.

It is gonna take him a couple years to become a dominant pitcher. I am surprised he is not in the Marlins Triple A; Tigers rushed him to the big leagues.

I hope we don't regret it someday!

gs78 wrote:

But Miller is getting some K's at least.

It is gonna take him a couple years to become a dominant pitcher. I am surprised he is not in the Marlins Triple A; Tigers rushed him to the big leagues.

I hope we don't regret it someday!

Yeah he is, but he's so afraid to walk anyone he's throwing everything down the middle of the plate and the other teams are just crushing him. His walks are down by a huge margin but good gawd, he's getting hit all over the place. He should be in Carolina. He just might be after Saturday.

Anyways, lol, my point was though that his W-L is 0-1 and it SHOULD be 0-2 if you judge a pitcher by his W-L. I was just saying that is a bit deceiving.

I agree with you Soulrat! excellent point!


Can't always go by the W-L Record!

gs78 wrote:

I agree with you Soulrat! excellent point!


Can't always go by the W-L Record!

Randy Johnson won 17 games in 2006... Oh, his ERA was 5.00 with an ERA+ of 90.

Ben Sheets' record was 12-14 in 2004... Oh, his ERA was 2.70 with an ERA+ of 162.

W-L record is awful, too. Rather than quote old history, let's look at 2007:

Matt Cain was 7-16 despite a 3.65 ERA. FOUR of his losses he gave up 1 ER. TWO times he gave up 1 hit...and lost.

Joe Borowski had a 5.07 ERA and a WHIP of 1.431 yet he got 45 saves which lead the AL.

Based on the W-L and save numbers Borowski is better than Cain. Alcohol alone shouldn't lead you to that conclusion.

excellent example Bobrob

catbox_9 wrote:

Alcohol alone shouldn't lead you to that conclusion.

SoulRat wrote:

catbox_9 wrote:

Alcohol alone shouldn't lead you to that conclusion.

I thought you'd like that

Hey, we can go out drinking in 10 days - 9 days in another 7 minutes!

woo hoo!

Speaking of birthdays someone turns 23 in 5 minutes

catbox_9 wrote:

Speaking of birthdays someone turns 23 in 5 minutes

WOW! Thanks for the info!